icc cals for suspension of zimbabwe in tests.

[Perm]

No, see you are not getting the point. human rights record and government and other politics etc. should not be a concern for a sports governing body. It should only intervene regarding issue with its sport And yes I know those are the reasons behind Zimbabwe's down fall but the ICC should only intervene when it's a cricketing issue and right now the quality of the team is a cricketing issue and so now is the time they are intervening. What are the ICC going to do anyway? It's not the UN, let the UN and other concerned governments take political actions and let ICC deal with cricketing issues.

But when the government is interferring in the sport, like in Zimbabwe, then the ICC has to do something and I for one are very glad that they are actually talking about the Zimbabwe issue.

 

[LA ICE-E]

But when the government is interferring in the sport, like in Zimbabwe, then the ICC has to do something and I for one are very glad that they are actually talking about the Zimbabwe issue.

well guess what, no government is perfect and a lot of governments interfere with it's sports team but that isn't why the ICC should get into this, what they should do is look into the cricketing issue of it and deal with the zimbabwean board not the government, cause it can't do anything to the government. So pretty lame for the main governing body of a sport to be a political one or make political decisions when it can't really do much. So again only deal with the cricketing issue of it not political one.

 

[Perm]

well guess what, no government is perfect and a lot of governments interfere with it's sports team but that isn't why the ICC should get into this, what they should do is look into the cricketing issue of it and deal with the zimbabwean board not the government, cause it can't do anything to the government. So pretty lame for the main governing body of a sport to be a political one or make political decisions when it can't really do much. So again only deal with the cricketing issue of it not political one.

I'm not trying to suggest that any government is perfect, but the amount of interference that Mugabe's government has had with cricket in Zimbabwe is massive, and all of it detrimental to the plight of cricket in this country. By dealing with the cricketing issue they are getting into a political issue as well, owing to the fact that Zimbabwe Cricket is basically controlled by Mugabe and his minions.

 

[LA ICE-E]

I'm not trying to suggest that any government is perfect, but the amount of interference that Mugabe's government has had with cricket in Zimbabwe is massive, and all of it detrimental to the plight of cricket in this country. By dealing with the cricketing issue they are getting into a political issue as well, owing to the fact that Zimbabwe Cricket is basically controlled by Mugabe and his minions.

yes but they aren't directly getting into it or making judgments on a government which a sports governing body shouldn't do anyway. All they need to do without being political is ask the Zimbabwean board for reports on how cricket is going in the country and how they are spending the money they are getting from the ICC etc. that way yes some of the governmental issues are going to come up but than again the ICC will then punish the board for mismanagements etc. which is caused by the government but that's indirectly punishing the government too. But they shouldn't directly ever get into it because that's not their job.

 

[Richard]

I've said this before - you are extremely naive (and idealistic, indeed) if you think you can separate cricket from Zimbabwean politics.

 

[LA ICE-E]

I've said this before - you are extremely naive (and idealistic, indeed) if you think you can separate cricket from Zimbabwean politics.

You don't have to separate cricket from the politics but you just don't make judgments and decisions based on Zimbabwean politics. You deal with the cricket part of Zimbabwe as a sports governing body and when it doesn't work like now, you don't let them play tests but that's based on cricket because you can't correctly deal with the cricket when the government is interfering. Point is, I'm not naive and I know how it is but I also the know the business way of doing things, saying directly that Zimbabwe is suspended because of their government will attract a lot criticism, as it will get applauded by the Australians, English and New Zealanders for taking their side but citing Zimbabwe's suspension due to poor quality of cricket on the other hand wont get much criticism but will do the same job.

 

[Richard]

You don't have to separate cricket from the politics but you just don't make judgments and decisions based on Zimbabwean politics.

Yes, you do. The two are inexorably linked. To try to separate them is to display a dismal ignorance of the reality of the situation in Zimbabwe.

 

[LA ICE-E]

Yes, you do. The two are inexorably linked. To try to separate them is to display a dismal ignorance of the reality of the situation in Zimbabwe.

Yeah what the hell is a sports governing body going to do huh? oooo suspending zimbabwe because of their government will stop the government huh? or will that make the people there richer? why aren't people whining about the UN and the countries that are concerned about Zimbabwe not making political moves? Why doesn't the concerned governments do something other than invloving a sport in it? Why doesn't the UN do something? Why the hell does the ICC have to make political judgments and decisions when its a sports governing body? Whatever, if they are inexorably linked then it wont work to get the team back to the top quality and so you suspend them, there it's separated you didn't suspended them for the government but the quality of cricket being played.

 

[Richard]

Yeah what the hell is a sports governing body going to do huh?

The two are even affiliated in name, never mind that everything is completely under the power of Zanu PF, which rules by terror and oppression.

 

[Richard]

why aren't people whining about the UN and the countries that are concerned about Zimbabwe not making political moves? Why doesn't the concerned governments do something other than invloving a sport in it? Why doesn't the UN do something?

That's a completely separate issue and something that would be fruitless to discuss in Cricket Chat.

Why the hell does the ICC have to make political judgments and decisions when its a sports governing body?

Because everything, no matter what, is involved in politics. That's the nature of politics - it pervades anything. Trying to extract it from something is completely fruitless and exceptionally naive.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Doesn't matter if politics and sports mix, it's only a problem when the quality of the team is down and that's what happened here. So why should a team be suspended for a evil dictator if the team was still good? They shouldn't but unfortunately the team here has suffered too from this and that is the reason why they are likely to be suspended not because of their government. No matter how much sports and politics mix, the main sports governing body should never get into politics or take sides and make decisions likewise, it should only make decisions regarding the sport and the team not politics.

So you're arguing that South Africa shouldn't have been suspended when they were becuase their team was still competitive?

 

[LA ICE-E]

The two are even affiliated in name, never mind that everything is completely under the power of Zanu PF, which rules by terror and oppression.

Doesn't matter if they are completely under the power of Zanu PF, if they were good enough to play test cricket than there should be no reason to suspend.

That's a completely separate issue and something that would be fruitless to discuss in Cricket Chat.

Just like the government is a separate issue.

Because everything, no matter what, is involved in politics. That's the nature of politics - it pervades anything. Trying to extract it from something is completely fruitless and exceptionally naive.

Really? than China shouldn't play sports, Pakistan shouldn't play sports, Bangladesh shouldn't play sports.. hey I'm just making political judgments right? and that's what the ICC should do too right? decide which government it likes and which it doesn't and suspend its members likewise huh? NO...

 

[LA ICE-E]

So you're arguing that South Africa shouldn't have been suspended when they were becuase their team was still competitive?

They weren't suspended by the ICC, they didn't play because of the Gleneangles Agreement and other countries refusing to play them. Why don't the Australian government etc do something like this instead of whining to the ICC.

 

[Richard]

They were suspended under what the time's equivalent of I$C$C was.

 

[Richard]

Doesn't matter if they are completely under the power of Zanu PF, if they were good enough to play test cricket than there should be no reason to suspend.

But anything under Zanu PF was never going to maintain the ability to play Test cricket. The party has wrecked every single thing about the country.

Just like the government is a separate issue.

Nope, it's not. The UN and the Govornments of France and Spain have nothing to do with cricket. Zanu PF does.

Really? than China shouldn't play sports, Pakistan shouldn't play sports, Bangladesh shouldn't play sports.. hey I'm just making political judgments right? and that's what the ICC should do too right? decide which government it likes and which it doesn't and suspend its members likewise huh? NO...

There is a line. Nonetheless, there are indeed some who argue that China is across that line. Isolation, however, has been tried, and hasn't done any good.

 

[LA ICE-E]

But anything under Zanu PF was never going to maintain the ability to play Test cricket. The party has wrecked every single thing about the country.

Ok than Zimbabwe never had a chance to come back to test status but it's just formalities.

Nope, it's not. The UN and the Govornments of France and Spain have nothing to do with cricket. Zanu PF does.

going by that do have something to do with cricket the UN and the Govornments of France and Spain, had the tried to get the dicator out and got him out than Zimbabwean cricket would be better.

There is a line. Nonetheless, there are indeed some who argue that China is across that line. Isolation, however, has been tried, and hasn't done any good.

what makes you think isolation by only cricket would do any good?

 

[LA ICE-E]

They were suspended under what the time's equivalent of I$C$C was.

it wouldn't play any other countries other than white nations...(England, Australia, New Zealand).... that effects the ICC and cricket, while if Zimbabwe was still good it wouldn't effect any country.

 

[Richard]

Ok than Zimbabwe never had a chance to come back to test status but it's just formalities.

There's no point in that. Zimbabwe is a case that doesn't require formalities to be followed.

going by that do have something to do with cricket the UN and the Govornments of France and Spain, had the tried to get the dicator out and got him out than Zimbabwean cricket would be better.

Indeed. But there would be other things in Zimbabwe that would also be better (things more important than cricket) and hence this is really not the place to be talking about it.

what makes you think isolation by only cricket would do any good?

It wouldn't. It very obviously requires more than that. But there are plenty of good reasons for cricketing isolation anyway.

 

[Richard]

it wouldn't play any other countries other than white nations...(England, Australia, New Zealand).... that effects the ICC and cricket, while if Zimbabwe was still good it wouldn't effect any country.

That's completely unimportant. The issues at stake were nothing to do with the game of cricket - while it'd have been nice for SA to have played WI, Ind and Pak, them not doing so was nothing to do with their suspension. It was due to broader issues. And it was undertaken by the 1970s equivalent of what is now I$C$C.

 

[Piper]

This is BS! Why should the people of Zimbabwe be stopped from watching/playing cricket because of the idiot who happens to run the country? I think it's so unfair but at the same time I understand why the ICC have done it. Instead of going to war with Iraq, the UK and USA should have gotten rid of him.