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How G is an ATG?

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
For most of their careers Ponting, Lara and Tendulkar were considered very close. At age 33 Pointing had an average of a touch under 60. He fell away at the end but surely if you're including Lara and Tendulkar you'd also include Ponting, despite him playing on after his eye went.
Ponting was on my list. Though you must admit he generally isn't quite seen by all to be on the same tier as the other two. Don't think it's only because of his decline (VIv had an ever worst one) , but yes he is on my list.
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
Contenders for best opener
Hobbs, Hutton, Gavaskar, (Sutcliffe)
Bradman
Best after Bradman:
Sobers, Smith, Tendulkar, Richards, Lara, Hammond, (Ponting)
Legitimate contenders for best fast bowler
Marshall, Steyn, McGrath, Hadlee, Ambrose, (Trueman, Donald)
Transcendent all rounders
Gilchrist, Kallis (Imran)
Greatest Spinner
Warne, Muralitharan, (O'Reilly)

More of less my kinda condensed order (and rated in order by position)

ATG for me has to be the ultimate top tier of talent in the sport, all the rest were unquestioned greats , but these guys were just a cut above the rest, the S tier, the immortals who left their marks.
 

TheJediBrah

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For most of their careers Ponting, Lara and Tendulkar were considered very close. At age 33 Pointing had an average of a touch under 60. He fell away at the end but surely if you're including Lara and Tendulkar you'd also include Ponting, despite him playing on after his eye went.
Tendulkar was always a smidge ahead, except for maybe the brief few years 2002-2004-ish where Ponting was better
 

stephen

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Garner must be considered when discussing greatest fast bowler. He largely bowled first change and still maintained an incredible record. He's got a better average than half the bowlers on that list.
 

h_hurricane

International Vice-Captain
Naw that's too restrictive. There's no reason to have a cutoff for 5. It's just an arbitrary number. There's many others on the same level of quality. There should be ~12-15 fast bowlers there alone. We're talking about 143 years of cricket.
A restrictive list isn't restrictive if it is not. Was just going by the approximate number Engle mentioned. I would say there would be around 50 ATG cricketers.
 

ataraxia

International Coach
Bradman only.

He is the all-time great. End of story.

Anything else is too arbritary.

Maybe one way to define ATG is to have one player from a set time period / even an alphabetical letter.

For an example:

Fred Spofforth (1877-87)
WG Grace (1887-97)
Victor Trumper (1897-1907)
SF Barnes (1907-1917)
Jack Hobbs (1917-27)
Don Bradman (1927-37)
Wally Hammond (1937-47)
Keith Miller (1947-57)
Garfield Sobers (1957-67)
Sunil Gavaskar (1967-77)
Maybe here we're lenient? Like:
Imran+Marshall+Hadlee+Richards (77-87)
Ambrose (87-97)
Tendulkar (97-07)
Steyn (07-present)

It's time period-adjusting and less arbitrary but still has obvious setbacks. Just showcases the inherent problem with the ATG term, really.
 

Coronis

Cricketer Of The Year
Bradman only.

He is the all-time great. End of story.

Anything else is too arbritary.

Maybe one way to define ATG is to have one player from a set time period / even an alphabetical letter.

For an example:

Fred Spofforth (1877-87)
WG Grace (1887-97)
Victor Trumper (1897-1907)
SF Barnes (1907-1917)
Jack Hobbs (1917-27)
Don Bradman (1927-37)
Wally Hammond (1937-47)
Keith Miller (1947-57)
Garfield Sobers (1957-67)
Sunil Gavaskar (1967-77)
Maybe here we're lenient? Like:
Imran+Marshall+Hadlee+Richards (77-87)
Ambrose (87-97)
Tendulkar (97-07)
Steyn (07-present)

It's time period-adjusting and less arbitrary but still has obvious setbacks. Just showcases the inherent problem with the ATG term, really.
Woulds defs swap Hammond and Bradman’s time periods tho.

Anyway yeah I don’t think it should be restricted to a specific number, for me I look at a players career and if they’ve reached a certain level (and sustained it... mostly) they’re an ATG for me. I don’t like the idea of removing X player say to add in a Smith or a Kohli.
 

mr_mister

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I definitely dont get why Sanga isnt placed on the Sachin/Lara level

his average as a specialist bat is crazy
 

vcs

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I definitely dont get why Sanga isnt placed on the Sachin/Lara level

his average as a specialist bat is crazy
Sanga and Kallis, statistically speaking, have every right to be there, really. Maybe 20 years down the line people who never watched any of them will rate them above Sachin/Lara haha.
 

mr_mister

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Sanga and Kallis, statistically speaking, have every right to be there, really. Maybe 20 years down the line people who never watched any of them will rate them above Sachin/Lara haha.
yeah i look forward to it. Even his raw average of 57 from pleeenty of tests is amazing. and he debuted in 2000 too and had overlap with Sachin/Lara, its not like he was years and years removed from their era. I agree, twenty years from now he'l hopefully be held up onto their level in hindsight
 

srbhkshk

International Captain
yeah i look forward to it. Even his raw average of 57 from pleeenty of tests is amazing. and he debuted in 2000 too and had overlap with Sachin/Lara, its not like he was years and years removed from their era. I agree, twenty years from now he'l hopefully be held up onto their level in hindsight
2000 was the best time for a batsman to debut though, not a point in his favor I think.
 

kyear2

Cricketer Of The Year
Sanga and Kallis, statistically speaking, have every right to be there, really. Maybe 20 years down the line people who never watched any of them will rate them above Sachin/Lara haha.
Which is why we don't just use stats and also read / use contemporary reports.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
yeah i look forward to it. Even his raw average of 57 from pleeenty of tests is amazing. and he debuted in 2000 too and had overlap with Sachin/Lara, its not like he was years and years removed from their era. I agree, twenty years from now he'l hopefully be held up onto their level in hindsight
Yeh, Sanga is right up there, a true ATG. It's not only his 57 overall average, there's no holes in his record, he's remarkably good against all opponents in all conditions.
 

Red

The normal awards that everyone else has
I dread the day when Jadeja is called an ATG all rounder
Why? He's a very very good cricketer, and a very good all rounder. His break down of batting and bowling stats reveals that. Has done well in almost all conditions against all opponents.

Batting average of 35 and bowling average of 25. Takes more than 4 and a half wickets per test. As a number 7 or 8 bat who's also a frontline bowler, he's super valuable.
 

Daemon

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I hope he gets more opportunities overseas tbh. At the moment the policy seems to be pick Ashwin, wait for him to **** up then drop him for Jadeja.
 

TheJediBrah

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Why? He's a very very good cricketer, and a very good all rounder. His break down of batting and bowling stats reveals that. Has done well in almost all conditions against all opponents.

Batting average of 35 and bowling average of 25. Takes more than 4 and a half wickets per test. As a number 7 or 8 bat who's also a frontline bowler, he's super valuable.
I know it's been talked to death on here, but you can't just take the stats at face value. He's played almost all his Tests in Asia IIRC. Which is not his fault, it makes sense for him to be picked more in favourable conditions.
 

Line and Length

Cricketer Of The Year
In all fairness, while he has played mostly on the sub-continent, Jadeja has played a reasonable number of games in England (5), New Zealand (3), West Indies (3), Australia (2) and South Africa (1). On these trips he still averages around 30 with the bat but, understandably, his bowling performances are down.
 

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