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"Greats" dropped after first Test

aussie tragic

International Vice-Captain
Surprised no one has mentioned this one yet - Richard Hadlee, NZ's greates ever player. Debut against Pakistan at Wellington in 1973, took 2-112 and scored 46 and didn't play the next Test . Something he has in common with Imran.....
Meanwhile a third great allrounder of the era played only two tests (25 and 5-74 & 0-60) & (0 and 5-21 & 0-47) and then missed 4 tests....was Botham dropped or was he injured?
 
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aussie tragic

International Vice-Captain
New Zealand "Greats dropped after debut" ... (couldn’t find any batsmen?)

Adam Parore + (12*, 20) (4c + 1st)
Chris Cairns (1, 28) (0-60)
Richard Hadlee (46, DNB) (2-84, 0-28)
Ian Smith + (7, 7) (0c, 0c)
Lance Cairns (4*, 0) (2-73)
Simon Doull (DNB, 2) (1-29, 0-8)
Ewan Chatfield (0, 13) (0-95)
 
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Poker Boy

State Vice-Captain
Meanwhile a third great allrounder of the era played only two tests (25 and 5-74 & 0-60) & (0 and 5-21 & 0-47) and then missed 4 tests....was Botham dropped or was he injured?
Injured. I don't think he was on the field when his second Test finished.
 

Engle

State Vice-Captain
Rodney Redmond was dropped after a match in which he scored a 50 and a 100, never to be seen again
 

aussie tragic

International Vice-Captain
West Indies "Greats dropped after debut" ..

Brian Lara (44, 5)
Richie Richardson (0, 26)
Seymour Nurse (70, 11)
Garry Sobers (14*, 26) (4-76, 0-6)
Jimmy Adams (11, 79*)
Andy Roberts (9*, DNB) (1-75, 2-49)

Why would Sobers be dropped after that effort :-O ....he batted at # 9 with an ave of 40.00, while he had 4 wkts @ 20.50....btw, he was then selected as the # 6 in his next test...
 
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Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
West Indies "Greats dropped after debut" ..

Brian Lara (44, 5)
Richie Richardson (0, 26)
Seymour Nurse (70, 11)
Garry Sobers (14*, 26) (4-76, 0-6)
Jimmy Adams (11, 79*)
Andy Roberts (9*, DNB) (1-75, 2-49)

Why would Sobers be dropped after that effort :-O ....he batted at # 9 with an ave of 40.00, while he had 4 wkts @ 20.50....btw, he was then selected as the # 6 in his next test...
IIRC he was a stopgap replacement, and the fact he was 18 at the time.
Same true of Lara too.

Not fair to say someone was "dropped" if they were only brought in because someone else missed 1 game through injury, which I suspect several of the already-mentioned were.
 

aussie tragic

International Vice-Captain
Same true of Lara too.

Not fair to say someone was "dropped" if they were only brought in because someone else missed 1 game through injury, which I suspect several of the already-mentioned were.
Sorry, but if you debuted and then didn't play the next game (barring injury), then you were "dropped" from the side...what else would you call it...
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
For me, you can't be dropped if you weren't picked as a first-choice. If you were only brought in because someone was missing and was always going to return, it really isn't fair to be called as dropped IMO.

Being dropped is when you go from being a first-choice to not being in my book.
 

aussie tragic

International Vice-Captain
For me, you can't be dropped if you weren't picked as a first-choice. If you were only brought in because someone was missing and was always going to return, it really isn't fair to be called as dropped IMO.

Being dropped is when you go from being a first-choice to not being in my book.
No offence, however as usual, you seem to re-write the definitions of cricket terminology to fit your own opinion... I've been watching cricket for over 20 years and any player that was excluded from a test side was deemed to have been "dropped"...I've never heard of a "not deemed to be dropped because he was just filling in for an injured player" terminology ;) ... what's next, not dropped because (i) he was old (ii) because he was "pushed", or (iii) because he was crap at the end (aka Botham)
 
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Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
No, as I said - being dropped has always signified to me going from being first-choice to not being. Usually, that's because you get worse as a player.

I've never heard anyone suggest it simply means being left-out of the side when available, TBH.
 

aussie tragic

International Vice-Captain
No, as I said - being dropped has always signified to me going from being first-choice to not being. Usually, that's because you get worse as a player.

I've never heard anyone suggest it simply means being left-out of the side when available, TBH.
I'm at a loss to understand this one....I'd appreciate other CW members comments....

....doesn't being left out of a team you last played in mean you were "dropped" (e.g Graeme Hick was available, but was dropped right, as was Stuart Law and Jason Gillespie)....in addition, Ian Healy was available, but was not selected so therefore "dropped", even though the cover story was that he retired....
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
I've always taken it, as I said, to be completely related to first-choice selection.

I never thought of Stuart Law, for instance, as being dropped, just a stand-in who stood aside.
 

stumpski

International Captain
I'm at a loss to understand this one....I'd appreciate other CW members comments....
Well, as I see it, a player who's brought in at the last minute to replace an injured player, has the same opportunity as everyone else to make that place secure. A good example being Andrew Strauss who came in for Michael Vaughan against new Zealand in May 2004. He got a 100 and a 90 and secured his place. If he hadn't performed well, he would have been left out of the next match - or dropped. As it was it was Hussain who decided to jump ship to save the selectors an awkward decision.

I sort of see what Richard's saying, but a 'substitute' isn't automatically going to be left out when the first-choice returns, if he makes the most of his chance.
 

Richard

Cricket Web Staff Member
Thing is, though, there are circumstances where he is - Stuart Law being a prime example.

Even Strauss - had Hussain been a couple of years younger, there's no way Strauss could possibly have stayed in the side. But it'd be crazy, I think, to describe him as being "dropped" after a debut like that.
 

HeathDavisSpeed

Hall of Fame Member
New Zealand "Greats dropped after debut" ... (couldn’t find any batsmen?)

Adam Parore + (12*, 20) (4c + 1st)
Chris Cairns (1, 28) (0-60)
Richard Hadlee (46, DNB) (2-84, 0-28)
Ian Smith + (7, 7) (0c, 0c)
Lance Cairns (4*, 0) (2-73)
Simon Doull (DNB, 2) (1-29, 0-8)
Ewan Chatfield (0, 13) (0-95)
Where's Heath??? Heath should be in there. I'm very, very upset about my exclusion from this list...
 

Matteh

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
If you played a match and then are not selected to play the next match, then you've been dropped.
Obviously stuff like not being selected to play the next match due to injury concerns isn't dropped but injury related.
 

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