Graham Gooch Vs Virat Kohli

[Johan]

Crowe struggled in India and SL.

c'mon, be real, he only played 2 games in Sri Lanka in 84, and then played 2 in 92-93 and made a brilliant hundred. India, he only toured once at the end of his career with his knees shot.

 

[sayon basak]

While I still go by my own ratings (hence never took Ponting), I do avoid pre WWI players like Grace, Ranji, Spofforth, Rhodes etc like plague; as I seen to be the only one to rate them. Also try to not take Trumper, Hill, even Barnes etc too quickly.

I kinda do the opposite.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yeah, I was thinking not to take Ranji in the current draft, but he was just too too good amongst the options left for me not to take him

I would have taken Crowe ahead, despite rating Ranji atleast a tier over him.

 

[BazBall21]

Toured SL twice. Can't rate someone too highly to spin who never did anything of note in SC to spin.

He had one tour there as an established Test player. The first was in the period where he wasn't ready and NZ's limited resources forced him in too early. I don't think he has enough of a credible sample size in Asia to go hard one way or the other. I think he was a good player of spin, but doesn't have the credentials to go down as one of the elite players of spin.

 

[capt_Luffy]

He had one tour there as an established Test player. The first was in the period where he wasn't ready and NZ's limited resources forced him in too early. I don't think he has enough of a credible sample size in Asia to go hard one way or the other. I think he was a good player of spin, but doesn't have the credentials to go down as one of the elite players of spin.

I don't think he has anything to back him up to spin vs de Villiers, who I think more than matches him to pace.

 

[Johan]

Crowe is marginally better against Pace but not proven against spin bar one knock, thus having De Villiers ahead is valid, but it's illogical to pretend that it's a large gap.

 

[BazBall21]

I don't think he has anything to back him up to spin vs de Villiers, who I think more than matches him to pace.

Speaking from their resumes, setting games up is what Crowe has on De Villiers, which contributed to him being acknowledged as arguably the best batsman in the world across a sustained period.

De Villiers has a more polished overall record.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Crowe is marginally better against Pace but not proven against spin bar one knock, thus having De Villiers ahead is valid, but it's illogical to pretend that it's a large gap.

What about the small gap of 5 runs in average??

 

[capt_Luffy]

Speaking from their resumes, setting games up is what Crowe has on De Villiers, which contributed to him being acknowledged as arguably the best batsman in the world across a sustained period.

De Villiers has a more polished overall record.

Simply put, ABD overall is just better.

 

[BazBall21]

Simply put, ABD overall is just better.

I would be inclined to agree, but I don't think rating Crowe ahead/on par is unequivocally false.

 

[Johan]

I would be inclined to agree, but I don't think rating Crowe ahead/on par is unequivocally false.

+1

they're about the same level.

 

[BazBall21]

+1

they're about the same level.

Yeah and your comparative point that skillset tax is applied to both guys holds some truth and tbh I'm not as big a hater of that logic as some people on CW. Technique can get too subjective as there's a lot to be said for nous at output maximisation but obviously circumstances can give some players a big comparative leg up in that regard and Crowe did have a ruthless streak. He was a FC bully and has a monster conversion rate.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I would be inclined to agree, but I don't think rating Crowe ahead/on par is unequivocally false.

LATD. You might rate Crowe ahead if you want to, but I rate a total of 12 players in between them. So don't think they are interchangeable. ABD is on Compton level, Crowe with Amla.

 

[Johan]

Yeah and your comparative point that skillset tax is applied to both guys holds some truth and tbh I'm not as big a hater of that logic as some people on CW. Technique can get too subjective as there's a lot to be said for nous at output maximisation but obviously circumstances can give some players a big comparative leg up in that regard and Crowe did have a ruthless streak. He was a FC bully and has a monster conversion rate.

Yeah he smashed apart Hadlee in FC too, pretty sure Hadlee never dismissed him, as I said, an absolutely fantastic player of pace. Hadlee considered Crowe one of the best ever.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

That Johnson series is top 10 All Time imo, 15 at worst. I think how a bowler bowled on a particular day/series is more important than their overall standings, very significantly.

Johnson’s bowling against Eng and SA at the time is probably the best bowling of the last 20 years at least tbh. I think Pews rates it as the second best he’s seen behind peak Asif.