Glenn McGrath vs Richard Hadlee

[subshakerz]

I don't necessarily agree with this assessment. Other than for Imran, particularly Vaas and Wasim calibrated their game around hitting batsmen's pads. Low bounce helped it. And both specifically delivered wobble seam deliveries so it would hit the shine and skid. Vaas particularly struggled in latter years when the ball started bouncing over the stumps off a length on faster wickets. Kapil and Wasim were not much different from Vaas in last few years of their careers. In addition these guys were masters of cutting the ball, giving it a chance to stuck in the pitch. These bowlers are products of the pitches they played.

You are missing the point. Yes they all successfully adapted their games to low bounce wickets to their credit but even a mid-2000s Aussie or England pitch would be more conducive generally to what they had to deal with. You can't convince me that Kapil, Vaas or Wasim would be worst served if they had to play in the latter pitches for half their careers.

 

[harsh.ag]

You are missing the point. Yes they all successfully adapted their games to low bounce wickets to their credit but even a mid-2000s Aussie or England pitch would be more conducive generally to what they had to deal with. You can't convince me that Kapil, Vaas or Wasim would be worst served if they had to play in the latter pitches for half their careers.

Kapil sucked in swing friendly paces. Eng, NZ, SA. He did well in Aus and WI.

 

[subshakerz]

Kapil sucked in swing friendly paces. Eng, NZ, SA. He did well in Aus and WI.

There are a lot of factors such as not as many opportunities, phase of career, strength of opposition, etc. But bottom line any of these pacer bowlers would prefer mid-2000s Australia or England to play 60 tests of their career compared to 80s/90s Pakistan or India all other factors equal. I don't get how this is even debatable.

So McGrath shouldn't get all these brownie points.

 

[Jayro]

Most other teams have at least 2 or 3 ODI bowling greats, but who is England's best ODI bowler?

Willis
Gough
Flintoff
Anderson
Swann
Woakes
????

Perhaps big Freddie

I think Gough

 

[harsh.ag]

There are a lot of factors such as not as many opportunities, phase of career, strength of opposition, etc. But bottom line any of these pacer bowlers would prefer mid-2000s Australia or England to play 60 tests of their career compared to 80s/90s Pakistan or India all other factors equal. I don't get how this is even debatable.

So McGrath shouldn't get all these brownie points.

They would literally have to be different people altogether for them to prefer that.

Kapil sucked in England.
Vaas sucked in England and Australia.
Wasim had an average of 28 in England, 22 in Pakistan.

I dunno how you can ignore that. If you are saying they would have preferred to have been brought up there in those conditions, well then they would just be very different people and not the Kapil, Vaas, Wasim we knew.

 

[subshakerz]

They would literally have to be different people altogether for them to prefer that.

Kapil sucked in England.
Vaas sucked in England and Australia.
Wasim had an average of 28 in England, 22 in Pakistan.

I dunno how you can ignore that. If you are saying they would have preferred to have been brought up there in those conditions, well then they would just be very different people and not the Kapil, Vaas, Wasim we knew.

Again, the point is that saying that McGrath bowled so well in a batting era doesn't hold water when there are other greats who likely bowled more in more difficult conditions yet don't get that extra credit.

If McGrath averaged 21/22 in Australia in the 2000s, are you going to say bowling there was suitable for him or he excelled despite conditions?

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Most other teams have at least 2 or 3 ODI bowling greats, but who is England's best ODI bowler?

Willis
Gough
Flintoff
Anderson
Swann
Woakes
????

Perhaps big Freddie

Flintoff it is 169 wickets @24.4

 

[Prince EWS]

Yeah it's definitely Flintoff. I think he's comfortably in the top ten ODI bowlers ever.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Yeah it's definitely Flintoff. I think he's comfortably in the top ten ODI bowlers ever.

Nah

Garner
Pollock
Mcgrath
Akram
Hadlee
Roberts
Murali
Warne
Saqlain
Waqar
Bumrah
Starc
Lee
Donald

 

[Prince EWS]

Nah

No it's 100% true - I really do think that.

Yeah it's definitely Flintoff. I think he's comfortably in the top ten ODI bowlers ever.

 

[Jayro]

Flintoff it is 169 wickets @24.4

I don't think odi bowling should be judged by average alone unlike tests, ER is equally or more important here.

 

[Jumno]

McGrath. Accurate penetrable line and length.

Got Tendulkar out in big games Adelaide 99, WC super six 99, wc final 03 with his intelligence.

 

[Gob]

McGrath. Accurate penetrable line and length.

Got Tendulkar out in big games Adelaide 99, WC super six 99, wc final 03 with his intelligence.

Hey

You maybe a bit new here but normally we stick to tests here unless specifically mentioned otherwise. Mods normally perma ban new people who brings OD cricket in to discussions