Gavaskar/Kapil or Boycott/Botham

[Johan]

Gavaskar>Dravid>Miandad>Kohli>Boycott; close between Boycott and Kohli ig.

I'm taking you don't value longevity?

 

[sayon basak]

I'm taking you don't value longevity?

I do. I just don't have strong opinion on Kohli vs Boycott.

 

[Johan]

I do. I just don't have strong opinion on Kohli vs Boycott.

Miandad also isn't generally better than Boycott

 

[subshakerz]

If Botham is your regular number six batter and any higher than a 4th seamer, your team is trash. We're talking about overall cricketers, not peaks. Fat Botham makes the choice easy for me.

Botham overall is better than Kapil, sure. But they're close; but Boycott and Gavaskar are not, sorry.

I already said this is an average team. Botham is an average specialist bat. He make the top six without any reduction in quality. And he is certainly good enough to be a frontline bowler in an average team.

By virtue of being good enough to bat in the top 6 and be a regular bowler, he opens up an extra space in the team for either a 5th bowler or extra batsman at no.7/8. That's really valuable.

With Kapil, you are stuck with the same team combo with less depth in batting or bowling.

Also I think Botham has a higher ceiling than Kapil, he can win games solo when on song, and I think that is more valuable than being consistently average.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Botham is just a clearly better bat and same level as a bowler.

Do you think that batting edge is enough to overcome the advantage Gavaskar has?? Matter of fact, without India Botham averages below 28

 

[Cricket Bliss]

Boycott missed way too many matches to claim longevity and was a prick who refused to adapt. I think Kohli is ahead of Boycott marginally, and they are kinda closish to Dravid but definitely in separate tiers.

Dravid might at best be a bit ahead of Boycott but Kohli never will. Even the gap between Gavaskar and Boycott isn't big. Gavaskar failed in Sri Lanka (failure against minnow do count) and struggled in England and upto an extent in New Zealand. Dravid failed in South Africa and struggled in Australia. Kohli failed in Bangladesh, England and New Zealand. Whereas Boycott failed only in New Zealand ,miserably though but is successful everywhere else.
Boycott from 1978-82 (age 37-41) has 3,030 runs @ 43.29 8 100s and 14 50s.
Kohli from 2021-25 (age 32-36) has 1,912 runs @ 31.87 3 100s 8 50s.
Gavaskar might stand ahead , Dravid and Boycott are almost the same level but Kohli never in the tier of these three

 

[capt_Luffy]

Dravid might at best be a bit ahead of Boycott but never Kohli. Even the gap between Gavaskar and Boycott isn't big. Gavaskar failed in Sri Lanka (failure against minnow do count) and struggled in England and upto an extent in New Zealand. Dravid failed in South Africa and struggled in Australia. Kohli failed in Bangladesh, England and New Zealand. Whereas Boycott failed only in New Zealand ,miserably though but is successful everywhere else.
Boycott from 1978-82 (age 37-41) has 3,030 runs @ 43.29 8 100s and 14 50s.
Kohli from 2021-25 (age 32-36) has 1,912 runs @ 31.87 3 100s 8 50s.
Gavaskar might stand ahead , Dravid and Boycott are almost the same level but Kohli never in the tier of these three

That's taking Analysis by checklist a bit too far imho

 

[subshakerz]

Do you think that batting edge is enough to overcome the advantage Gavaskar has?? Matter of fact, without India Botham averages below 28

I think I end up winning more games with Botham than Kapil, whereas the games I lose with Botham inconsistency would probably still be lost with relatively better Kapil performances in an average side.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I already said this is an average team. Botham is an average specialist bat. He make the top six without any reduction in quality. And he is certainly good enough to be a frontline bowler in an average team.

By virtue of being good enough to bat in the top 6 and be a regular bowler, he opens up an extra space in the team for either a 5th bowler or extra batsman at no.7/8. That's really valuable.

With Kapil, you are stuck with the same team combo with less depth in batting or bowling.

Also I think Botham has a higher ceiling than Kapil, he can win games solo when on song, and I think that is more valuable than being consistently average.

I don't think it makes much sense honestly. Dev makes your top 6 with a reduction in quality, but surely the drop between Botham and Dev is lower than that of Gavaskar and Boycott??

 

[Cricket Bliss]

Gavaskar>Dravid>Miandad>Kohli>Boycott; close between Boycott and Kohli ig.

Gavaskar > Dravid >=Boycott > Miandad > Kohli

 

[capt_Luffy]

I think I end up winning more games with Botham than Kapil, whereas the games I lose with Botham inconsistency would probably still be lost with relatively better Kapil performances in an average side.

Kapil did provide much better than the best teams they both faced, home and away, with ball and the bat. Botham was way too average for way too long imo

 

[Johan]

Miandad also isn't generally better than Boycott

average gap of 4 points can be explained between Miandad and Boycott could be put down to

1. Miandad could not be given out LBW at home in 99% of the scenarios.
2. Miandad had dead wickets at home, while Boycott had greentops.
3. Miandad batted 4, Boycott opened, the latter is obviously a far harder job, especially outside the subcontinent, and especially against the duke delivery.

Once that is mentioned, Boycott just has a much better record against the West Indies, better in Australia and generally better away from home barring New Zealand where Javed got more generous wickets than Boycott. Boycott is also just inherently valuable than Javed.

 

[subshakerz]

Kapil did provide much better than the best teams they both faced, home and away, with ball and the bat. Botham was way too average for way too long imo

In terms of sheer output, Botham with 27 fifers, 4 tenfers, 14 tons and 22 fifties in 102 tests has a massive impact much moreso than Kapil. Kapil the bat especially is overrated.

And in an average team, give me a high impact less consistent performer over a lesser impact consistent performer any day. Yes and I know Botham failed against WI but still his matchwinning capabilities outside that are far more impressive.

 

[Cricket Bliss]

Not an elegant stroke maker, but this looks elegant

 

[Thala_0710]

I'd go:
Sunny>Dravid>Miandad>Boycott>Kohli

 

[subshakerz]

I don't think it makes much sense honestly. Dev makes your top 6 with a reduction in quality, but surely the drop between Botham and Dev is lower than that of Gavaskar and Boycott??

Dev doesn't make a top 6 even in an average side sorry. Not good enough.

 

[capt_Luffy]

In terms of sheer output, Botham with 27 fifers, 4 tenders, 14 tons and 22 fifties in 102 tests has a massive impact much moreso than Kapil. Kapil the bat especially is overrated.

And in an average team, give me a high impact less consistent performer over a lesser impact consistent performer any day. Yes and I know Botham failed against WI but still his matchwinning capabilities outside that are far more impressive.

I think Botham the bat is more overrated. Kapil has some top tier innings as well. I think the fact Botham was way too average for way too long, and yeah, I think it's an easy choice overall.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Dev doesn't make a top 6 even in an average side sorry. Not good enough.

I think Gavaskar+Kapil is definitely a stronger batting force than Boycott+Botham, any way you put it. The increase output at 6 comes in at cost in the OP. I am sorry, it just doesn't makes much sense honestly.

 

[Johan]

I'd go:
Sunny>Dravid>Miandad>Boycott>Kohli

Boycott the better Batsmen and the better person etc

 

[subshakerz]

I think Botham the bat is more overrated. Kapil has some top tier innings as well. I think the fact Botham was way too average for way too long, and yeah, I think it's an easy choice overall.

Kapil has 8 tons in 134 games and you are thinking Botham is overrated as a bat?