First Off-spinner (in a half sleeve shirt) in years to take 300 test wickets...

[eempyrean]

not sure if serious?

I am serious. Murali shades it just. But his action is suspect and there's no hiding from that. Not to mention that fact that they were more weak teams and more bowler friendly conditions overall when Murali played in my opinion. The bats and gloves have arguably improved too.

The fact you think arguably the best spin bowler since Warne (Ashwin) who also averages 31 with the bat isn't an all time great worries me. You need to loosen up and appreciate players more

 

[Daemon]

The idea that Murali bowled on more favourable pitches than Ashwin is.. itstl

 

[Motorwada]

Now here's a question:

Number of countries Murali sucked in: 2 (India - 45, Australia - 75)
Number of countries Warne sucked in: 2 (India - 43, WI - 40)

Everywhere else they average under 30

Number of countries Ashwin sucks in: 3 (Eng - 33 which is not too bad but lets just take 30 as a benchmark for suckiness, SA - infinite, Oz - 54)

Everywhere else under 30.

So if Ashwin just performs well in one of these above mentioned countries and brings his average below 30 (will have to be sa/eng as sample size is low there) and have just 2 sucky countries is he equal to warne/murali.

If he does in 2 is he the GOAT?

 

[OverratedSanity]

Murali and Warne didn't just 'not suck' everywhere else though, they absolutely dominated, so using a checklist like that is worthless (as it usually is). He needs to win a bunch of matches for India overseas and keep it up for another 4-5 years if he wants to have any prayer of catching those two.

It won't happen.

 

[Motorwada]

Murali and Warne didn't just 'not suck' everywhere else though, they absolutely dominated, so using a checklist like that is worthless (as it usually is). He needs to win a bunch of matches for India overseas and keep it up for another 4-5 years if he wants to have any prayer of catching those two.

It won't happen.

In the countries Ashwin has not 'sucked in' he has dominated too. MoS and a few MoMs in the 2015 SL series and 2016 WI series not to mention a 20 something average in Bangladesh as well. And if ppl criticize these as being 'weak' teams Warne got a heaplaod of his wickets against a similarly 'weak' England in the 90s and if someone rebuts to that by saying if England was so weak why could India not win there - well the same reason England cannot win against the current WI team or Oz against the current SL team - Home advantage.

 

[Burgey]

Ashwin needs to concentrate on out bowling Nathan Lyon home and away before he warrants comparison with Muralitharan or Warne.

 

[Motorwada]

Ashwin needs to concentrate on out bowling Nathan Lyon home and away before he warrants comparison with Muralitharan or Warne.

One series does not a bowler make. Nathan Lyon avgd 37 in 2013 compared to Ashwin's 23.

 

[vcs]

Ashwin is not in the class of Warne or Murali, but he can still be the Anderson of spin bowling, i.e. equal or surpass Kumble in terms of match-winning impact and end up with more than 500 wickets. That would be a terrific career in itself.

 

[stephen]

Ashwin is not in the class of Warne or Murali, but he can still be the Anderson of spin bowling, i.e. equal or surpass Kumble in terms of match-winning impact and end up with more than 500 wickets. That would be a terrific career in itself.

Absolutely agree.

Ashwin is destined for all-time very goodness.

 

[Burgey]

One series does not a bowler make. Nathan Lyon avgd 37 in 2013 compared to Ashwin's 23.

He averaged 34 here in 2014 compared with Ashwin's 46 too. Lyon > Ashwin.

 

[cnerd123]

All-Time Very Goodness is a brilliant term that fits where guys like Ashwin and Anderson will probably end up

No shame in being an ATVG player.

 

[Burgey]

All-Time Very Goodness is a brilliant term that fits where guys like Ashwin and Anderson will probably end up

No shame in being an ATVG player.

True that

 

[shankar]

He averaged 34 here in 2014 compared with Ashwin's 46 too. Lyon > Ashwin.

In the matches that they both played in that series he averaged 47.

 

[vcs]

All-Time Very Goodness is a brilliant term that fits where guys like Ashwin and Anderson will probably end up

No shame in being an ATVG player.

ATVGs with the ball - Anderson, Kumble, Ashwin, Walsh
ATVGs with the bat - Sehwag, Hayden, Pietersen, Amla, Jayawardene, Dravid, Younis Khan, Clarke, Graeme Smith

Seem to be more batsmen than bowlers who fit the bill in recent years.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Dravid and Younis are "very good"? You're dead to me, vcs

 

[vcs]

I guess they fall just short of ATG for me. But Dravid for me is ahead of all the other guys and just behind Kallis and Sanga. Probably those three are somewhere in between ATVG and ATG.

 

[vcs]

Also missed out AB de Villiers and Chanderpaul in the ATVG list.

 

[cnerd123]

Dravid is ATG, as is Sanga

Younis Khan is squarely, undoubtedly, a ATVG. He would be the poster boy for it.

 

[Shri]

Sehwag is an atg even if he sucks in swinging conditions.

 

[vcs]

Dravid is ATG, as is Sanga

Younis Khan is squarely, undoubtedly, a ATVG. He would be the poster boy for it.

Yeah, I agree

Kallis is also an ATG, no matter how boring you might have found it to watch him bat. He cannot not be an ATG with 45 hundreds at 55+ and nearly 300 wickets, plus all those catches at slip.