English spinners

[Shane Warne]

we should really refer to them as "english slow bowlers" coz afterall, none of them actually spin it

 

[Tom Halsey]

Salisbury?

Mind you, you do have a point. He was the only one. I rated him, although his international record doesn't make pleasant reading.

Schofield spins it, if you have seen him. A talent.

 

[quytst0rm]

Graeme Swann of Northamptonshire looks like a really good prospect and plus hes a bowling all-rounder tremendous potential if they can develop him.

 

[Tom Halsey]

He's an OK prospect, but I wouldn't get too excited about him.

 

[Neil Pickup]

we should really refer to them as "english slow bowlers" coz afterall, none of them actually spin it

Yes.. whatever you say...

 

[marc71178]

Re: Wot about....

So wat about mushtaq ahmed, is it possible 4 him to play for england at sum point, i no hes neva gonn play 4 pakistan again so perhaps when he gets his uk passport.

He played for Pakistan 2 or 3 months ago...

 

[marc71178]

we should really refer to them as "english slow bowlers" coz afterall, none of them actually spin it

I presume you've not seen the coverage from SL then.

 

[Richard]

Of course not, it's inconceivable that a finger spinner may actually be a good bowler.

If that were so, how come people even try to bowl it?

Agreed. There are good fingerspinners in the world, you know, Richard, but not in England's case apart from James Middlebrook.

Murali Kartik and any other orthodox fingerspinner Sri Lanka and India can provide are no better than Croft, Giles, Brown, Middlebrook and Swann.
They simply have favourable conditions often.
A fingerspinner can be a good bowler - but only in certain conditions. People try to bowl it because these conditions do exist.
In certain conditions, however (and these conditions are much the most common worldwide) fingerspinners cannot be good bowlers, simple as.

 

[Richard]

The words: Bend ideas to suit your ideals. Spring to mind.

My ideals and ideas are formed on facts.
Not the other way around.
The other way around would be wholly pointless.

 

[Pratters]

Who all do you reckon are the best and upcoming spinners now?

And thoughts on -

Giles
Panesar
Loudon
Udal
and other prospective guys

 

[Scweej]

They simply have favourable conditions often.
A fingerspinner can be a good bowler - but only in certain conditions. People try to bowl it because these conditions do exist.
In certain conditions, however (and these conditions are much the most common worldwide) fingerspinners cannot be good bowlers, simple as.

i disagree, a good bowler whether fingerspinner or pace bowler will hav the skills and the tools to succeed on any pitch . . . The control of flight and rotational speed of the ball, accuracy, variety, stamina and concentration have nothing to do with the state of the pitch. The state of the pitch will certainly aid or detract from the effectiveness of the bowler.

For example, India is considered a harsh environment for pace bowling, however a good bowler will still succeed ...Glenn McGrath has taken 33 wickets in 8 test matches at an average of 21.30.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

In certain conditions, however (and these conditions are much the most common worldwide) fingerspinners cannot be good bowlers, simple as.

In certain conditions fast bowlers can be uttery nullified. In isolated circumstances leg-spinners aren't very effective.

What about Bishen Bedi? Erapalli Prasanna? Ashley Mallett? Derek Underwood?

The fact there aren't any utterly brilliant fingerspinners around today doesn't prove your point.

 

[luckyeddie]

In certain conditions fast bowlers can be uttery nullified. In isolated circumstances leg-spinners aren't very effective.

What about Bishen Bedi? Erapalli Prasanna? Ashley Mallett? Derek Underwood?

The fact there aren't any utterly brilliant fingerspinners around today doesn't prove your point.

You could be in for a long wait - Richard made his point about 9 months before you joined the forum. He has since possibly died from motherboard poisoning (he famously lost a bet and his forfeit was to eat his computer).

 

[Nate]

Panesar is meant to be quite good, best of luck to him.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

You could be in for a long wait - Richard made his point about 9 months before you joined the forum. He has since possibly died from motherboard poisoning (he famously lost a bet and his forfeit was to eat his computer).

Curse that spade work!

IIRC, he's gone through several mainframes' worth since I've joined the forum.

 

[Matteh]

Who all do you reckon are the best and upcoming spinners now?

And thoughts on -

Giles
Panesar
Loudon
Udal
and other prospective guys

Anyone that's ever played international cricket captain (ashes edition) knows that Brown,Middlebrook,Giles,Swann,Pietersen(ha) become the best finger spinners in England by 2008....
clearly it's not real, but i like to think it's based on something

 

[SJS]

i disagree, a good bowler whether fingerspinner or pace bowler will hav the skills and the tools to succeed on any pitch . . . The control of flight and rotational speed of the ball, accuracy, variety, stamina and concentration have nothing to do with the state of the pitch. The state of the pitch will certainly aid or detract from the effectiveness of the bowler.

For example, India is considered a harsh environment for pace bowling, however a good bowler will still succeed ...Glenn McGrath has taken 33 wickets in 8 test matches at an average of 21.30.

Absolutely spot on.

There are many bowlers of different types who have been devastating in India. I just took a sample off the top of my head of bowlers i have seen bowling in India who were very effective and then taken their figures in India. They are ALL impressive.


Bowler........Type..........Matches.....Wkts.....Avg.....Wkts/test
Benaud.......LEG SPIN........8..............52.......18.4..........6.5 (Much better than career average}
Hadlee........Fast Medium....6..............31.......22.2..........5.2
Roberts.......Fast................7..............37.......19.8..........5.3 (Much better than career average}
Hall..............Fast...............8.............38........20.9..........4.8 (Much better than career average}
Davidson.....Left-medium.....6.............30........15.8..........5.0 (Much better than career average}
Underwood...left arm spin...16............54........26.5..........3.4
Titmus........Off spin............5.............27........27.6..........5.4 (Much better than career average}
Mallett........Off Spin...........5.............28.........19.1.........5.6 (Much better than career average}
Gibbs.........Off Spin...........9.............39.........23.4.........4.3 (Much better than career average}

And they come from all over the world from different conditions and at different times in history. And most of them performed better in India than they did elsewhere !!

Its all a question of class.

 

[Nate]

Spot on SJS.