English batting post-Hutton, pre-Gower

[Lillian Thomson]

Some genius at Lords decided in the 70's that it was too many overseas players that were harming the England team. Hampshire had Richards, Greenidge and Roberts - Warwickshire had three from Kallicharran, Kanhai, Gibbs and Murray - Kent has Asif Iqbal, John Shepard and Bernard Julien - Gloucestershire had Sadiq, Zaheer and Proctor - Most other counties had at least two high class overseas players - Lancashire had Lloyd and Engineer - well you get the idea..........
I can't see how this was harming the England team. If a player was good enough to play for England he would come through the system no matter what was blocking his way. County Cricket today is utter **** - the England players don't play, the overseas players are third rate Zimbabwean allrounders that no one has ever heard of or the occasional superstar who drops in when he's got a couple of weeks off.
The only reason the England team is more successful these days is because it's easier to nick players from Africa. Had the Apartheid affair come to a head in 1960 instead of 1970 some of the likes of Richards, Barlow, McEwan, Davidson, Proctor, Rice etc would have played for England.

 

[wpdavid]

It's a shame it wasn't written 10 years later than when it came out in 1990.

I'm sure that his criticisms are largely justified. Even in the 1960's we regularly got through 20 players in a home summer, which says something about the lack of long term planning by the selectors. Or even their lack of judgement.

My impression of the 1970s was that Alec Bedser actually did a reasonable job. He was roundly criticised for not picking some younger players, especially in light of his 'Dads' Army' side in the 1972 Ashes, but there really wasn't a lot of talent coming through. He would have know better than anyone that the CC simply didn't contain adequate replacements for the likes of Barrington, Cowdrey and Graveney who had made up the middle order in the late 1960s. He was more consistent than his 1960s predecessors and massively more consistent than May and Dexter, who followed him. He had his faults, but I think they were more in his man management (viz his handling of Botham in 1981) rather than selection decisions. Perhaps his biggest error was in not appointing Boycott to replace Illingworth in 1973/74.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Perhaps his biggest error was in not appointing Boycott to replace Illingworth in 1973/74.

I think his error was replacing Illingworth at all. He was available for the West Indies trip after missing the Indian Tour the previous winter. Denness had a terrible tour of the West Indies and his job was saved by Boycott's batting (99 and 112 in a low scoring match) and Greig's freak bowling performance in the last Test. Boycott said those innings were the worst days work he ever did.

 

[wpdavid]

I think his error was replacing Illingworth at all. He was available for the West Indies trip after missing the Indian Tour the previous winter. Denness had a terrible tour of the West Indies and his job was saved by Boycott's batting (99 and 112 in a low scoring match) and Greig's freak bowling performance in the last Test. Boycott said those innings were the worst days work he ever did.

Interesting call. Illy was really getting on a bit by then - maybe 42 or 43? And we had been comfortably beaten by WI in England in 1973. As captain, I think he had only won one of five series since the 1970/71 Ashes, all of them at home. And the one win was against NZ, who damned nearly chased 440 to win the first test. If he had stayed on and we had still drawn the 1974 WI tour, he'd have probably gone after the 1974/75 Ashes and we'd have faced the same question regarding the captaincy, albeit with Greig a couple of years more experienced. Would have been a brave call to appoint Greig instead of Boycott even then.

 

[archie mac]

I think his error was replacing Illingworth at all. He was available for the West Indies trip after missing the Indian Tour the previous winter. Denness had a terrible tour of the West Indies and his job was saved by Boycott's batting (99 and 112 in a low scoring match) and Greig's freak bowling performance in the last Test. Boycott said those innings were the worst days work he ever did.

Interesting call. Illy was really getting on a bit by then - maybe 42 or 43? And we had been comfortably beaten by WI in England in 1973. As captain, I think he had only won one of five series since the 1970/71 Ashes, all of them at home. If he had stayed on and we had still drawn the 1974 WI tour, he'd have probably gone after the 1974/75 Ashes and we'd have faced the same question regarding the captaincy, albeit with Greig a couple of years more experienced. Would have been a brave call to appoint Greig instead of Boycott even then.

Begs the question of whether Closey should have been axed as captain? To an Australian it seemed an over reaction

 

[wpdavid]

Begs the question of whether Closey should have been axed as captain? To an Australian it seemed an over reaction

Before my time, but probably not. Wasn't that over some indiscretion in a county match? And I think we were doing pretty well under his captaincy. Plus he was Illingworth's captain at Yorkshire of course.

The one counter argument is whether he was worth his place as a batsman in the late 1960's line up of Boycs, Edrich, Barrington, Cowdrey, Graveney and Dolly.

 

[archie mac]

Before my time, but probably not. Wasn't that over some indiscretion in a county match? And I think we were doing pretty well under his captaincy. Plus he was Illingworth's captain at Yorkshire of course.

The one counter argument is whether he was worth his place as a batsman in the late 1960's line up of Boycs, Edrich, Barrington, Cowdrey, Graveney and Dolly.

Yep time wasting I think it was. I think him one of the very rare captains you might play on his captaincy ability. Brave and led from the front. I know all of the Somerset boys were in awe of him.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Close was older than Illingworth and at no stage in his career should he have been playing for England.