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England players and selection discussion thread

Gremlin

U19 Cricketer
I want Parkinson in an England team sooner than later.

But, y'know, he bats at 11 for his county so must be a risk lengthening the tail....
 

FBU

State Captain
I want Parkinson in an England team sooner than later.

But, y'know, he bats at 11 for his county so must be a risk lengthening the tail....
I don't know why people worry about the tail. The bowlers get you wickets.
No 11 Mahmood top scorer in the innings with 49 - Matt Henry also at 11 v SA 58* - you never know what you will get with tailenders
 

ImpatientLime

International Regular
would agree that Leach is not a major issue.

however it is frustrating that England has a domestic competition that supposedly is terrible at providing conditions and support for young spinners to develop. then when they have a leggie taking 100+ wickets at 23 a piece, the best start to a career for a leggie in living memory in England, they totally ignore him.

if a young leggie is succeeding in a tournament where everything is against him then try him out ffs.
 

kevinw

U19 Cricketer
Leach hasn't let England down really. And there hasn't been many Tests that have favoured two spinners recently. The first two Tests in WI were just roads. They weren't spin friendly and Parkinson may have found that tough. England are in Pakistan this Winter so both will play, you'd hope.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
would agree that Leach is not a major issue.

however it is frustrating that England has a domestic competition that supposedly is terrible at providing conditions and support for young spinners to develop. then when they have a leggie taking 100+ wickets at 23 a piece, the best start to a career for a leggie in living memory in England, they totally ignore him.

if a young leggie is succeeding in a tournament where everything is against him then try him out ffs.
Well they're not totally ignoring him, he's in the squad. I do agree that his batting shouldn't be a reason to not pick him. I genuinely have no idea why you think everything is against a leggie performing in county Cricket, they do get to bowl at English batsmen.

And as Kevin says he's a certainty in Pakistan.
 

morgieb

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Batting keeps coming up but I really don't think Leach's batting is acting as any sort of selection bonus for him.
Leach at least seems like he can hang around a bit and play some key innings. Parkinson sounds like a total rabbit.
 

kevinw

U19 Cricketer
In Pakistan, the 8-11 would hopefully be something like Wood, Leach, Mahmood, Parkinson - maybe Robinson in for one of the quicks. Archer would be nice, but undoubtedly a pipe dream. Ideally, one of the top seven can bowl spin reasonably well, even if it's just Root.
 

ImpatientLime

International Regular
Well they're not totally ignoring him, he's in the squad. I do agree that his batting shouldn't be a reason to not pick him. I genuinely have no idea why you think everything is against a leggie performing in county Cricket, they do get to bowl at English batsmen.

And as Kevin says he's a certainty in Pakistan.
county cricket has been a poor breeding ground full stop for spinners since the introduction of covered pictures.

since deadly only swann can legitimately be labelled as a world class option.

there is another oddity with the mindset of English cricket. we bemoan a lack of penetration from our bowling abroad and the default answer every time is pace and old ball skills. it leads us to take gambles on blokes like Mahmood who has a super modest record to date and probably shouldn't be near the side. but the wrist spinner (in general) is not seen as an equally viable option in difficult conditions.
 

kevinw

U19 Cricketer
Not sure. I think Mahmood, like Wood, has skills most England bowlers don't have, and can be particularly effective outside of England. That skiddy pace from a slightly lower trajectory.
 

grecian

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
county cricket has been a poor breeding ground full stop for spinners since the introduction of covered pictures.

since deadly only swann can legitimately be labelled as a world class option.

there is another oddity with the mindset of English cricket. we bemoan a lack of penetration from our bowling abroad and the default answer every time is pace and old ball skills. it leads us to take gambles on blokes like Mahmood who has a super modest record to date and probably shouldn't be near the side. but the wrist spinner (in general) is not seen as an equally viable option in difficult conditions.
In the end, you maybe right about County Cricket and spinners in general, but surely that's been people not recreating their County form in International cricket, I mean the Like of Emburey and edmonds were omnipotent in the Championship.

I just don't really agree with your assessment of how we view leg-spin, in fact I think it's the opposite. I'm not sure there have been any leggies up to Parkinson who have been particularly badly treated by England, in fact many are picked too early, Salisbury, Schofield, Crane, even Rashid was probably picked when he was wildly inaccurate originally, so I am not that bothered he's being allowed to learn his trade more. He's established as the second spinner now, he'll get games eventually, could be this summer who knows?

Patience grasshopper....
 
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Blenkinsop

U19 12th Man
We've been told for years on end that English county trundlers aren't quick enough to take wickets outside England. Hence we put our faith in the likes of Archer and Wood while lots of bowlers with outstanding domestic records have never played for England, from Glen Chapple to Jamie Porter. Yet people like Vernon Philander, Kemar Roach, Tim Southee, Neil Wagner, Mohammad Abbas and Shardul Thakur have been taking wickets for fun bowling at 130kph, and the most promising new England bowler in recent years has been Robinson who is much the same. I get why you don't want to have four identical medium-fast trundlers in a side, but I do wonder sometimes if our obsession with unearthing the next Frank Tyson is a bit unhelpful.
 

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