Doug Walter's 68/69 series against the Windies... How come I'm just now discovering this

[mr_mister]

I know a bit about Walters of course, cheeky larrakin, aggressive yet very effective batsmen but sucked in England, but I had no idea he was this bloody good

His returns across the series: 76, 118, 110, 242, 50, 103

699 runs @ 116 from 6 digs with no not outs

The Windies bowling weren't quite the force they'd be 10 years later but still had Hall, Griffith, Sobers and Gibbs. Certainly better than the Windies bowling stocks of say '73

But anyway, this feels like one of the all time series performances but I never hear as much as a whisper about it.

 

[Xuhaib]

What is Walter's standing in Australia batting greats.

I reckon he's in the Hayden, Gilchrist, Hussey tier?

 

[Calm_profit]

I'm surprised that he didn't performed well in England given that he has done well in Newzealand against Hadlee(he was not in his prime but still decent enough).

 

[Calm_profit]

I know a bit about Walters of course, cheeky larrakin, aggressive yet very effective batsmen but sucked in England, but I had no idea he was this bloody good

His returns across the series: 76, 118, 110, 242, 50, 103

699 runs @ 116 from 6 digs with no not outs

The Windies bowling weren't quite the force they'd be 10 years later but still had Hall, Griffith, Sobers and Gibbs. Certainly better than the Windies bowling stocks of say '73

But anyway, this feels like one of the all time series performances but I never hear as much as a whisper about it.

It is similar to what Smith did in Ashes 2019.

 

[Starfighter]

I read a book that covered parts of the tests earlier this year. Sounds like a very interesting series.

There is next to no footage available (the ABC has or had some, but hoard it for whatever reason) and the romanticism around the WI team seems to telescope their time line into 'they were good in the sixties - they were beaten in Australia in 75/76 - they went on to dominate the world'.

 

[Starfighter]

The Windies bowling weren't quite the force they'd be 10 years later but still had Hall, Griffith, Sobers and Gibbs. Certainly better than the Windies bowling stocks of say '73
But anyway, this feels like one of the all time series performances but I never hear as much as a whisper about it.

With reference to the WI bowling at this point, it was a team who had burnt-out spearheads and didn't really know what to do. In the last test, the only one Hall and Grifith played together, apparently there was one session where they managed to summon the fire of old, but otherwise neither was particularly dangerous.

Sobers had a floating bone in his shoulder at the time. Not sure if it affected his pace bowling but he couldn't bowl unorthodox anymore. He did take his best innings figures at Brisbane with orthodox spin. Holford wasn't particularly effective, as was normal over his stop-start 11-year career. Edwards, who was more notable for being white than anything else, was quick but wayward.

With respect to the attack around '73, except for Gibbs they did fail badly against Australia. But Boyce did pull out a magnificent performance in England, who WI thrashed the pants off. That's why '76 victory really assumed more importance in hindsight than at the time, because England had lost heavily three years before.

 

[mr_mister]

I see. 4 tons in one series is still a very rare and cool thing though.

 

[BazBall21]

Insane production. Regardless of the attack, it only takes one ball. Walters is one of the most fondly-remembered players of that era. Must have been box-office. Seems he was quite similar to Hayden in being a monster on hard pitches at home but struggled against the moving ball on soft pitches in England. A dashing fast-scorer that first arrived in a dour era.

 

[Spikey]

do u kw abt denis lindsay in 66-67

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Walters was a strange case. Some people trot out the obvious cliche's about him struggling in swinging conditions in England, even cricinfo has BS about his high bat lift. They did a feature on him during a break in play on the 77 Ashes Tour and they all agreed his poor record was just one of those oddities that seems to happen to great players for no obvious reason (Sobers against New Zealand for example). He made a few half centuries without converting. His experience might have been handy on the 81 tour when they twice collapsed chasing low totals. I was still only early teens then, but I know a couple of older people who spoke to him and he was a top bloke as well by all accounts.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Walters was a strange case. Some people trot out the obvious cliche's about him struggling in swinging conditions in England, even cricinfo has BS about his high bat lift. They did a feature on him during a break in play on the 77 Ashes Tour and they all agreed his poor record was just one of those oddities that seems to happen to great players for no obvious reason (Sobers against New Zealand for example). He made a few half centuries without converting. His experience might have been handy on the 81 tour when they twice collapsed chasing low totals. I was still only early teens then, but I know a couple of older people who spoke to him and he was a top bloke as well by all accounts.

Is a top bloke, surely? Dougie is still with us.

I imagine, given his reputation, he fully enjoyed the hospitality offered on tour, so that might've had an effect on his performances up here.

Supposed to have been a useful medium bowler too, wasn't he? Pretty sure I've never seen footage of him bowling though.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Is a top bloke, surely? Dougie is still with us.

I imagine, given his reputation, he fully enjoyed the hospitality offered on tour, so that might've had an effect on his performances up here.

Supposed to have been a useful medium bowler too, wasn't he? Pretty sure I've never seen footage of him bowling though.

By "was" I meant at the time the people I know spoke to him. He might have turned into a git, it was 45 years ago.

 

[mr_mister]

Is a top bloke, surely? Dougie is still with us.

I imagine, given his reputation, he fully enjoyed the hospitality offered on tour, so that might've had an effect on his performances up here.

Supposed to have been a useful medium bowler too, wasn't he? Pretty sure I've never seen footage of him bowling though.

Apparently all his junior success was with the ball I learnt yesterday in an interview. He used to bat 7-8 and have a swing, but it was his bowling that got him picked for NSW in the Sheffield shield initially. Apparently he got absolutely carted in his second FC game and thought to himself "gee better work on my batting a bit if I want any kind of long term cricket career". The rest is history!

 

[wpdavid]

Walters was a strange case. Some people trot out the obvious cliche's about him struggling in swinging conditions in England, even cricinfo has BS about his high bat lift. They did a feature on him during a break in play on the 77 Ashes Tour and they all agreed his poor record was just one of those oddities that seems to happen to great players for no obvious reason (Sobers against New Zealand for example). He made a few half centuries without converting. His experience might have been handy on the 81 tour when they twice collapsed chasing low totals. I was still only early teens then, but I know a couple of older people who spoke to him and he was a top bloke as well by all accounts.

I'm not entirely convinced. He did play 18 tests over here, across four series, so from here it looks like there may have been a reason for his overall average of 26. And it's not as if he had to face the new ball very often, so a relatively low average across that many tests may tell us something. Not that I'm remotely qualified to say what. Sobers otoh only played 7 tests in NZ, and the first four of those as a teenager.

Maybe I'm just biased because I never saw him do much against England in the matches that I was able to watch live. I am aware that Australians of a certain age think the world of him.

 

[honestbharani]

Walters was an aggressive bat and could bowl. hb likey.

 

[wpdavid]

This came up on youtube for me today, probably because their clever software had picked up on me checking his record on cricinfo.

Interesting stuff as nearly always from Chappelli. Someone pointed out earlier that the WI attack in 1973 was pretty weak, but Gibbs on a spinning Trinidad wicket was the one exception.

 

[Starfighter]

I'm not entirely convinced. He did play 18 tests over here, across four series, so from here it looks like there may have been a reason for his overall average of 26. And it's not as if he had to face the new ball very often, so a relatively low average across that many tests may tell us something.

From what I've seen, watching him in the '72 highlights, he tended to play a bit away from his body with hard hands and often a sightly angled bat. Made him more vulnerable to movement outside off, the same weakness that dogs most modern Australian bats in England.

 

[wpdavid]

From what I've seen, watching him in the '72 highlights, he tended to play a bit away from his body with hard hands and often a sightly angled bat. Made him more vulnerable to movement outside off, the same weakness that dogs most modern Australian bats in England.

That figures. I think that Snow dismissed him more often than not on the 1972 tour, so I'd guess that he struggled with movement off the seam as well as through the air.

Having checked his figures in England, I was looking earlier at how he got on against decent pace bowlers when there was a bit of help for them. He averaged low 30s in the 1969/70 tour of SA. For some reason he didn't play against WI in 1975/76. No idea how he went in WSC, but that would give us a clue. I'm not saying he couldn't play the quicks at all; that would be nonsense. Chappelli's next interview in that series was about his hundred in the final session at Perth in the 2nd test on the 1974/75 tour, where he famously hooked Willis' final ball of the day for 6 to reach the landmark. But Willis was famously unfit and frequently knackered by the final session in those days, and England were already demoralised. Which doesn't mean that the innings was anything other than spectacular, but maybe some perspective is in order. I don't know. Saying that a batsman struggled against good quicks in slightly helpful conditions is hardly a damning indictment. Clearly he played some extraordinary knocks at other times.

 

[mr_mister]

He speaks quite openly about his view on it here

Doesn't put it down to fast bowling but the pitches being that tiny bit slower with more seam so you've got that extra second to think which he didn't like. He preferred less time to think it seems. He could make the adjustment in NZ, but also puts it down to Snow being a very deadly bowler and that combination of undesirable conditions for him plus quality bowlers did him in

He seems like a really honest, intelligent and humble dude too. Top bloke I'd imagine

 

[the big bambino]

His 65/66 series v England was good too.