Brian Lara vs Sunil Gavaskar (Away from home)

[capt_Luffy]

Strong Disagree.

I disagree to your disagreement.

 

[Johan]

I disagree to your disagreement.

I disagree to your disagreement of my disagreement, now shut up.

 

[ataraxia]

I think when we are discussing two relatively modern players and one played just Tests away, that it being specific to Tests makes more sense. It's also about specifically away record, I thought it was Test specific really. I am not counting the 188 Gavaskar scored vs Marshall and Hadlee here as well in his English record.

I love it when sample sizes are made even more meaninglessly small by excluding quality knocks for no good reason.

 

[Agonizingly Awkward]

3 matches and a legit top 50 innings. Will take it over two pretty tons of 3 50s/5 40s of no quality.

Would have been if he would have sticked and won India the game.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Would have been if he would have sticked and won India the game.

No, then it would be Top 10.

 

[Agonizingly Awkward]

No, then it would be Top 10.

Even then it would be barely top 100

 

[Sliferxxxx]

that's my point, the point of performing against great bowlers is performing against great attacks, you can't do that if you get out to Saqlain and Cronje


I disagree, atleast in your prime you should be expected to perform against the greater bowling attacks, one way or the other.


I conceded Sachin is a better player of fast bowling multiple posts ago, you're really going on a tangent there, my point was that one way or the other, Sachin's output against great attacks is hampered, which is true and you pointed the reason for it, he survived the rock (Ws, Donald) but got defeated by the twig (Cronje, Saqlain).


Great.


why would I ignore the 1996 test? 42 is the bottom line, take it or leave it.


again, the conversation regarding Tendulkar is his output against great attacks, not just his output against great bowlers, sure Tendulkar was a better player of fast bowling and a better player in general, but one way or the other the actual output they achieved against great attacks is relative, be it by getting out to Donald or by getting out to Cronje, the effect remains the same regardless of the cause.


Against McGrath it's decent, Ambrose is just one series AFAIK on the deadest wickets ever where he was not bowling much, but Yeah his output against Steyn is great and is what allowed him, to in my mind, transcend Lara. My point is mostly about the 1990s and early 00s attacks as Lara never played Steyn and wouldn't have been successful anyway likely.

Disagree. He might not have been successful away ie in RSA but I'd bet my house Lara would slay Steyn in the Caribbean. Lara was good to great vs each and every great bowler he faced (at home).

 

[Sliferxxxx]

anyway Lara hundreds against ATG pacemen

Glenn McGrath 1997
Glenn McGrath 1999
Glenn McGrath 1999
Glenn McGrath 1999
Glenn McGrath 2000
Glenn McGrath 2005
Shaun Pollock 2003
Shaun Pollock 2004

again, There's a clear pattern, I'll let people figure it out.

Can you post Lara's averages as well vs ATG pacers (including Bond). Actually I can because 100s, imo are not the be all and end all:

1993 vs Ws: 43 h
1995 vs Mcgrath: 44 h
1997 vs Mcgrath: 32 a
1997 vs Ws: 21 a
1998 vs Donald/Pollock: 31 a
1999 vs Mcgrath: 91 h
2001 vs Donald/Pollock: 40. (Yes Subz Donald was past it) h
2002 vs Bond: 49 h
2003 vs Pollock : 66 a
2003 vs Mcgrath: 46 h
2005 vs Mcgrath: 58 a
2006 vs Bond: 18 a

a=away
h= home

Imo a mixed bag. Lara was decent away (to put it mildly) but stellar at home.

 

[subshakerz]

Would have been if he would have sticked and won India the game.

Lol it is easily in the top 50, probably top 30. Same with Gavaskars final innings.

 

[Arachnödouche2.0]

Disagree. He might not have been successful away ie in RSA but I'd bet my house Lara would slay Steyn in the Caribbean. Lara was good to great vs each and every great bowler he faced (at home).

I feel the opposite might've happened. Lara could've handled Steyn's slipperiness on the faster tracks, but the nature of West Indian pitches and outfields would've brought Steyn's slower wicket prowess into focus. In either case, as with most great batsmen vs Steyn, they'd have a few stunning successes but also look completely outclassed on occasion.

 

[akilana]

Would have been if he would have sticked and won India the game.

I wish he did but sadly he doesn’t have the clutch gene in him.

 

[Agonizingly Awkward]

Lol it is easily in the top 50, probably top 30. Same with Gavaskars final innings.

Not even in top 100. It was not even the best innings of the match

DoG's Test Innings and Bowling Performances. Updates thread.

I thought I would put my test performances in one thread and post updates on the ratings of any substantial innings or bowling performances after each series. I'll start with posting the batting top 100. This has undergone minor adjustments and is now looking very good. New Zealanders in...

www.cricketweb.net

 

[sayon basak]

Not even in top 100. It was not even the best innings of the match

DoG's Test Innings and Bowling Performances. Updates thread.

I thought I would put my test performances in one thread and post updates on the ratings of any substantial innings or bowling performances after each series. I'll start with posting the batting top 100. This has undergone minor adjustments and is now looking very good. New Zealanders in...

www.cricketweb.net

This method gives match result way too much weightage imo.

 

[Johan]

Disagree. He might not have been successful away ie in RSA but I'd bet my house Lara would slay Steyn in the Caribbean. Lara was good to great vs each and every great bowler he faced (at home).

Lara in 2008-09?

 

[subshakerz]

Not even in top 100. It was not even the best innings of the match

DoG's Test Innings and Bowling Performances. Updates thread.

I thought I would put my test performances in one thread and post updates on the ratings of any substantial innings or bowling performances after each series. I'll start with posting the batting top 100. This has undergone minor adjustments and is now looking very good. New Zealanders in...

www.cricketweb.net

That list is a joke.

 

[Coronis]

That list is a joke.

Thats uh, really harsh and far from a fair assessment of the work that went into that thread. Pretty sure DoG is universally recognised and respected here as being one of the best posters and his statistical analyses are a joy to read. Also, are you looking at the initial list of the later changes?

 

[Sliferxxxx]

Lara in 2008-09?

Well by 2008 Lara was well retired but hypothetically, had he faced steyn my assumption is, he'd probably coming up 2nd best in RSA but return the favor in the Caribbean.

 

[DrWolverine]

Lara struggled against Allan Donald. Not sure why some think he would do great against Steyn.

 

[Johan]

at home he'd probably slap Donald

 

[subshakerz]

Thats uh, really harsh and far from a fair assessment of the work that went into that thread. Pretty sure DoG is universally recognised and respected here as being one of the best posters and his statistical analyses are a joy to read. Also, are you looking at the initial list of the later changes?

Initial list.