Botham vs Jadeja (batting)

[subshakerz]

So Botham sucked against his best vs Jadeja was slightly below par vs his, so it can't be used in his favour?? God, that's the most awful take like ever. You can argue Botham played tougher opposition there, but Jadeja also batted on way tougher surfaces, that levels things out.

No, my point is that Botham vs WI it is not really a clincher because Jadeja didn't trump his best opposition.

It's a minor point in Jadejas favor sure if you like. Not really a big deal. Also Jadeja hardly played in SA, his toughest location, and was crap in the 2 games he did play.

This is completely rational. You can't claim a big advantage of a failing in one player if the other player also struggled but to lesser degree.

 

[subshakerz]

We know. On average a batsman would add his batting average number of runs before getting out if they are allowed to continue.

How do we know that?

 

[capt_Luffy]

No, my point is that Botham vs WI it is not really a clincher because Jadeja didn't trump his best opposition.

It's a minor point in Jadejas favor sure if you like. Not really a big deal. Also Jadeja hardly played in SA, his toughest location, and was crap in the 2 games he did play.

This is completely rational. You can't claim a big advantage of a failing in one player if the other player also struggled but to lesser degree.

So..... It's not a clincher because Jadeja wasn't a triumph, despite being significantly better to his? Yes, it was not triumph, but it was far from a heavy failure like Beefy.

Jadeja's 2nd game (1 innings) in SA shan't count if you have seen it. Can hardly count his SA batting record against him, except not having one which is fair.

Failing is significantly worse than being mean the last time I checked, and definitely an advantage. What are you on?

 

[honestbharani]

What are you on?

India hatred and that is basically 24*7.

 

[Rob Wesley]

Dude this thread is a comparison on batting. It's not on AR skills.

How is Jadeja bowling well relevant at all?

Okay let’s do it your way and keep it on batting purely. But shouldn’t we be taking pitches in consideration? Jadeja avg 29 vs Aus in his home on turning pitches. Botham averages 21 vs WI overall on balanced pitches. I think that’s one fair bit argument in favour of Jadeja.

When you compare Jadeja to Botham on bowling vs best, you will obviously give him a bit of stick for conducive home conditions so it only makes sense to do the opposite when talking about batting.

 

[ankitj]

How do we know that?

That's what average means.

 

[subshakerz]

India hatred and that is basically 24*7.

Can you get one poster aside form yourself who thinks I hate Indian players? I would like to ask why he thinks that.

 

[subshakerz]

That's what average means.

Not if 1/5th of your innings are NO. Then it distorts that average.

 

[subshakerz]

So..... It's not a clincher because Jadeja wasn't a triumph, despite being significantly better to his? Yes, it was not triumph, but it was far from a heavy failure like Beefy.

Jadeja's 2nd game (1 innings) in SA shan't count if you have seen it. Can hardly count his SA batting record against him, except not having one which is fair.

Failing is significantly worse than being mean the last time I checked, and definitely an advantage. What are you on?

Yeah it's not a clincher if you Jadeja is still sub 30 against his two best oppositions and that is claimed as a decisive difference.

Sub 30 is not mean for a regular bat. Congrats you are basically revealing you are lowering standards for Jadeja while extracting maximum penance for Botham against the greatest attack of all time.

 

[ankitj]

Not if 1/5th of your innings are NO. Then it distorts that average.

Proportion of not outs is irrelevant. Only the sample size is relevant. At 103 completed test innings Jadeja has a decent sample, 2 more than Imran Khan.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yeah it's not a clincher if you Jadeja is still sub 30 against his two best oppositions and that is claimed as a decisive difference.

Sub 30 is not mean for a regular bat. Congrats you are basically revealing you are lowering standards for Jadeja while extracting maximum penance for Botham against the greatest attack of all time.

You are pathetic sometimes. If you look what the par score on those games were, then yes, 29 infact was above par average. You acting like because he averages 29 to his two best opposition, we should give Botham with 21 (12 Away) a pass is really really pathetic.

 

[subshakerz]

Okay let’s do it your way and keep it on batting purely. But shouldn’t we be taking pitches in consideration? Jadeja avg 29 vs Aus in his home on turning pitches. Botham averages 21 vs WI overall on balanced pitches. I think that’s one fair bit argument in favour of Jadeja.

When you compare Jadeja to Botham on bowling vs best, you will obviously give him a bit of stick for conducive home conditions so it only makes sense to do the opposite when talking about batting.

Botham averages 21 against the greatest attack in history.

Jadeja averages well below 29 on those turning pitches against Aus.

This is not a 1 to 1 comparison.

 

[subshakerz]

You are pathetic sometimes. If you look what the par score on those games were, then yes, 29 infact was above par average. You acting like because he averages 29 to his two best opposition, we should give Botham with 21 (12 Away) a pass is really really pathetic.

No I'm not saying give Botham a pass.

I am saying it's a minor point in Jadejas favor since Bothams failure was worse, just not a clinching argument.

No, I'm not impressed by sub 30 overall averages and zero tons against his two best opps. For any specialist bat we would consider that below par.

The obvious point is you don't want to hold Jadeja to specialist bat standards, but you do for Botham. It's clear.

 

[subshakerz]

Proportion of not outs is irrelevant. Only the sample size is relevant. At 103 completed test innings Jadeja has a decent sample, 2 more than Imran Khan.

Again, Imran and Jadeja being more skilled than your average no.7/8s would take advantage of that to stay there until the end moreso than normal, but that did give an artificial average boost by allowing them more NOs.

If Botham was no.7/8 he would have the same average boost as well, if not moreso, by virtue of being good enough to outlast others.

 

[capt_Luffy]

No I'm not saying give Botham a pass.

I am saying it's a minor point in Jadejas favor since Bothams failure was worse, just not a clinching argument.

No, I'm not impressed by sub 30 overall averages and zero tons against his two best opps. For any specialist bat we would consider that below par.

The obvious point is you don't want to hold Jadeja to specialist bat standards, but you do for Botham. It's clear.

Which is significantly better than 21 I would like to assume?? Which is below par by even lower order standards.

 

[subshakerz]

Which is significantly better than 21 I would like to assume?? Which is below par by even lower order standards.

Yes Botham failed massively. We agree on that.

For this to be a clinching argument for Jadeja, he would need some at least modest success against his best opps and the contrast is clear.

But he doesn't have that. He also underperformed, just not to the same degree.

If Rahane was sub 30 against SA and Aus, we would consider it a negative, not make excuses for it like you are.

You don't want to treat Jadeja like Rahane, because you know Jadeja wasn't a specialist bat level. At best he is borderline. You just don't want to admit it.

That's a fact.

 

[subshakerz]

So many Jadeja defenders know that he isn't as good a bat as his average indicates, as neither Imran was, but they just don't want to admit it.

If Jadeja averaged 21 against a WI level ATG opposition, nobody would even begin to consider it disqualifying. They do for Botham because they actually hold him to a higher standard because he was frankly just better.

 

[ataraxia]

So many Jadeja defenders know that he isn't as good a bat as his average indicates, as neither Imran was, but they just don't want to admit it.

Nah they were both much better than their average. Their long careers hide how quality their peaks were.

 

[capt_Luffy]

So many Jadeja defenders know that he isn't as good a bat as his average indicates, as neither Imran was, but they just don't want to admit it.

If Jadeja averaged 21 against a WI level ATG opposition, nobody would even begin to consider it disqualifying. They do for Botham because they actually hold him to a higher standard because he was frankly just better.

I don't think anyone will even beat an eye if Botham averaged 28 vs WI.

 

[subshakerz]

I don't think anyone will even beat an eye if Botham averaged 28 vs WI.

They would if it was modern Aus or SA though.