Botham vs Jadeja (batting)

[capt_Luffy]

You don't need to speculate. His NOs give him a 7 point difference between RPI and average and we know this is an outlier and hence for him, average doesn't need to be taken at face value. That's it.

I never said minor differences in RPI for regular bats are a game changer.

We infact do need to speculate given substituting Average for RPI at face value is way worse.

 

[subshakerz]

We infact do need to speculate given substituting Average for RPI at face value is way worse.

I am not substituting. I am saying that saying Jadeja having a better average over Botham as a point in his favor is a non issue.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I am not substituting. I am saying that saying Jadeja having a better average over Botham as a point in his favor is a non issue.

And I am saying replying with Botham has RPI over him is significantly more of a none issue

 

[subshakerz]

And I am saying replying with Botham has RPI over him is significantly more of a none issue

That's fair I should specify that it's just a rebuttal to better average. The main point is batting more in the top six in his career.

 

[capt_Luffy]

That's fair I should specify that it's just a rebuttal to better average. The main point is batting more in the top six in his career.

That's a solid point, but he has failing against his top opposition, woefully so away, going against as well

 

[subshakerz]

That's a solid point, but he has failing against his top opposition, woefully so away, going against as well

It's not like Jadeja was amazing vs Aus and SA as a bat

 

[capt_Luffy]

It's not like Jadeja was amazing vs Aus and SA as a bat

28 vs and 34 in Australia, and 29 to SA. Very solid albeit not beautiful

 

[subshakerz]

28 vs and 34 in Australia, and 29 to SA. Very solid albeit not beautiful

It's not that impressive. Botham is 21 against WI. Worse but a far better lineup. So it's not a.clincher at all.

 

[capt_Luffy]

It's not that impressive. Botham is 21 against WI. Worse but a far better lineup. So it's not a.clincher at all.

It's perfectly reasonable for a bowling all-rounder. 28 and 29 is very solid, 21 is arse anyways you put it. And then away it's 34 in Aus, and for Botham it's what, 12? Acting it's not a big deal is just wilful bias imho

 

[subshakerz]

It's perfectly reasonable for a bowling all-rounder. 28 and 29 is very solid, 21 is arse anyways you put it. And then away it's 34 in Aus, and for Botham it's what, 12? Acting it's not a big deal is just wilful bias imho

this thread is comparing them as bats. You can't use the excuse of Jadeja as a bowling AR to justify his lower averages.

Sure Botham sucked vs a far better opposition than Jadeja ever faced who was also below par as a bat against his best two oppositions. This isn't some significant advantage for Jadeja, he just underperformed relatively less on this score.

Had Jadeja actually succeeded against one of them overall you might have a point.

 

[ma1978]

@subshakerz arguments so weak, they convince you to support the other side out of sheer contempt for bad logic

 

[subshakerz]

@subshakerz arguments so weak, they convince you to support the other side out of sheer contempt for bad logic

Thanks for telling us how easy it is to convince you to change your mind.

 

[Rob Wesley]

They are very comparable in batting. Jadeja could have scored 300 more runs at home if he got to bat longer.

 

[Rob Wesley]

this thread is comparing them as bats. You can't use the excuse of Jadeja as a bowling AR to justify his lower averages.

Sure Botham sucked vs a far better opposition than Jadeja ever faced who was also below par as a bat against his best two oppositions. This isn't some significant advantage for Jadeja, he just underperformed relatively less on this score.

Had Jadeja actually succeeded against one of them overall you might have a point.

Actually the main context should be the pitches when Australia played India, especially in India. They were turners always and Jadeja’s bowling record vs Australia in India is phenomenal . That’s the context we need to understand. No matter how good a batter be, turning pitches will result in relatively lower average. Same with seaming wickets.

Against Windies, Botham failed with both bat and bowl. So pitches excuse don’t come up here.

 

[subshakerz]

Actually the main context should be the pitches when Australia played India, especially in India. They were turners always and Jadeja’s bowling record vs Australia in India is phenomenal . That’s the context we need to understand. No matter how good a batter be, turning pitches will result in relatively lower average. Same with seaming wickets.

Against Windies, Botham failed with both bat and bowl. So pitches excuse don’t come up here.

His bowling record is irrelevant in a batting conversation.

It's silly to be forgivable for Jadeja failing on turners and not for Botham failing against the greatest pace attack in history.

 

[subshakerz]

They are very comparable in batting. Jadeja could have scored 300 more runs at home if he got to bat longer.

He wasn't seen as good enough to bat top six until only the last few years.

 

[Rob Wesley]

His bowling record is irrelevant in a batting conversation.

It's silly to be forgivable for Jadeja failing on turners and not for Botham failing against the greatest pace attack in history.

So you expect him to have a great record on turners vs best team even though he had great record with bowl against them and he already won player of series both times 2016/17 and 2022/23 when Australia toured India for his all round performance. That’s enough you win two player of series at home vs best team you face. Botham was outright bad vs WI, he didn’t do well in either of the department.

 

[subshakerz]

So you expect him to have a great record on turners vs best team even though he had great record with bowl against them and he already won player of series both times 2016/17 and 2022/23 when Australia toured India for his all round performance. That’s enough you win two player of series at home vs best team you face. Botham was outright bad vs WI, he didn’t do well in either of the department.

Dude this thread is a comparison on batting. It's not on AR skills.

How is Jadeja bowling well relevant at all?

 

[ankitj]

The point is we don't know how long they would have batted

We know. On average a batsman would add his batting average number of runs before getting out if they are allowed to continue.

 

[capt_Luffy]

this thread is comparing them as bats. You can't use the excuse of Jadeja as a bowling AR to justify his lower averages.

Sure Botham sucked vs a far better opposition than Jadeja ever faced who was also below par as a bat against his best two oppositions. This isn't some significant advantage for Jadeja, he just underperformed relatively less on this score.

Had Jadeja actually succeeded against one of them overall you might have a point.

So Botham sucked against his best vs Jadeja was slightly below par vs his, so it can't be used in his favour?? God, that's the most awful take like ever. You can argue Botham played tougher opposition there, but Jadeja also batted on way tougher surfaces, that levels things out.