Best Test opener of the 21st Century?

[BazBall21]

Hayden > Smith > Sehwag > Cook

Yeah my order too

 

[Coronis]

Only Kane has done some proper minnow bashing in the Fab Four. Root and Smith have never had the chance.

Surprising with the amount of tests England play.

 

[BazBall21]

Surprising with the amount of tests England play.

Yeah if it wasn't for political issues I would be a big advocate for a tour of Zimbabwe

 

[Chrish]

Interestingly, Steve Smith doesn’t have any minnow bashing in his record which makes his average more impressive. He could probably average 65+ if he played against the minnows more often.

He played in the conditions that were as batting friendly as ever seen before for good majority of his career though (particularly in Australia). That’s not to say he has never scored when it was difficult; he did for example during last Australian tours of India and England. However, it’s also disingenuous to say he didn’t get an opportunity to cash out on flat wickets.

Balance between ball and bat has shifted in last 3-4 years and so has average of all major batsmen. It’s not just a coincidence that apart from Smith, players like Kohli and Williamson haven’t been living up to the hype.

 

[BazBall21]

He played in the conditions that were as batting friendly as ever seen before for good majority of his career though (particularly in Australia). That’s not to say he has never scored when it was difficult; he did for example during last Australian tours of India and England. However, it’s also disingenuous to say he didn’t get an opportunity to cash out on flat wickets.

Balance between ball and bat has shifted in last 3-4 years and so has average of all major batsmen. It’s not just a coincidence that apart from Smith, players like Kohli and Williamson haven’t been living up to the hype.

Smith did get good home conditions before the ban.

 

[Stefan9]

Smith easily. The 4th innings record sways it completely.

 

[TheJediBrah]

He played in the conditions that were as batting friendly as ever seen before for good majority of his career though (particularly in Australia).

Irrelevant, he averages 62.91 at home, 60.39 away from home. "Flat home wickets" have had no influence on his record.

It's disingenuous to say that he did "cash out" on flat home wickets, especially when you compare him to Kane (averages 26 more at home than away) and Kohli (averages 19 more at home than away).

 

[Chrish]

Irrelevant, he averages 62.91 at home, 60.39 away from home.

62.91 at home while 57.56 at away+ neutral.

 

[ZK$]

Irrelevant, he averages 62.91 at home, 60.39 away from home. "Flat home wickets" have had no influence on his record.

It's disingenuous to say that he did "cash out" on flat home wickets, especially when you compare him to Kane (averages 26 more at home than away) and Kohli (averages 19 more at home than away).

If anything, he hasn’t cashed out at home at all considering his ability and away record. With an away average of 60, I’d have expected him to average 70+ at home.

 

[Chrish]

Read post one more time: we are taking about flattest wickets Australia consistently dished out before 3-4 years ago. I bet his home vs away + neutral discrepancy would even go higher during that time period.

So, very relevant. And when batting conditions have become difficult, everyone including smith’s average has suffered.

Smith’s career has intertwined with both, most and least batting friendly conditions seen post-war..

 

[TheJediBrah]

Read post one more time: we are taking about flattest wickets Australia consistently dished out before 3-4 years ago. I bet his home vs away + neutral discrepancy would even go higher during that time period.

So, very relevant. And when batting conditions have become difficult, everyone including smith’s average has suffered.

Ok but you're saying that he's benefited from them statistically aren't you? Which isn't really the case

No doubting that he got to play on these flat wickets

 

[Chrish]

Ok but you're saying that he's benefited from them statistically aren't you? Which isn't really the case

Of course he benefited from playing consistently on those sort of wickets for certain time period; look at David Warner. It’s not a coincidence his average has taken a huge hit when Australia started dishing out more sporting wickets in last few years.

Kohli and Williamson also did very well during that “flat wicket” time period in Australia when they toured there.

 

[TheJediBrah]

If anything, he hasn’t cashed out at home at all considering his ability and away record. With an away average of 60, I’d have expected him to average 70+ at home.

I have 2 theories on this, first is that his modus operandi is much less reliant on conditions than most players. Whereas a David Warner or Mitch Marsh would be unstoppable on a road, but useless on a wicket with spice, he is only very slightly inconvenienced by bowling-friendly conditions in comparison, and the way he often gets himself out happens just as much on flat wickets as others because it's his own doing rather than the bowlers.

Second is that he throws his wicket away batting with the tail, or nearing declarations a lot at home because Aus are stronger and more likely to reach a declaration position at home. If he batted more conservatively in these situations (eg. Steve Waugh, Chanderpaul) he'd probably average 70+ at home.

Of course he benefited from playing consistently on those sort of wickets for certain time period

Sure but to a very limited extent, which the numbers clearly demonstrate

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Best player is G. Smith (batting + leadership)

Biggest match winner is Sehwag (big scores scored quickly gave plenty of time for bowlers to take 20 wickets)

Best opener, however, is Hayden.

 

[ZK$]

Actually up until 2019, Smith averaged 77 at home and 51 away from home (including neutral).

So I guess you can say he did benefit from home conditions during that period, but I think it doesn’t really matter when looking at his whole career since the difference is minimal now.

 

[Flem274*]

i mean if your average away is 40 or whatever then you're a very good player and it's not your problem you may also average 50 billion at home.

so steve smith is pretty incredible.

 

[subshakerz]

Of course he benefited from playing consistently on those sort of wickets for certain time period; look at David Warner. It’s not a coincidence his average has taken a huge hit when Australia started dishing out more sporting wickets in last few years.

Kohli and Williamson also did very well during that “flat wicket” time period in Australia when they toured there.

Smith has six series in that period at home in which he averaged 100 plus, and then the one in England in 2019. Yeah it was a flat pitch time but he cashed in magnificently and is still keeping that average 60 somehow.

 

[subshakerz]

Smith easily. The 4th innings record sways it completely.

Glad someone else mentioned it. G Smith has four centuries in successful chases in SA, NZ, Australia and England and multiple knocks in saving matches as well. A very high impact and high pressure player who scores when it matters the most IMO.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Glad someone else mentioned it. G Smith has four centuries in successful chases in SA, NZ, Australia and England and multiple knocks in saving matches as well. A very high impact and high pressure player who scores when it matters the most IMO.

I agree with the choice of Smith, but not this reasoning. The idea that 4th innings matters most is a fallacy.

Yes batting in the 4th innings is harder, but Test matches are won and lost on first innings performances far more often than 4th innings. A lot of games by the time you get to the 4th innings the game is already decided and it's token cricket. If you have to choose between players with similar records but 1 bosses 1st innings and the other bosses 2nd innings you should be going with the one that dominates 1st innings more, it will win you more matches.

 

[subshakerz]

I agree with the choice of Smith, but not this reasoning. The idea that 4th innings matters most is a fallacy.

Yes batting in the 4th innings is harder, but Test matches are won and lost on first innings performances far more often than 4th innings. A lot of games by the time you get to the 4th innings the game is already decided and it's token cricket. If you have to choose between players with similar records but 1 bosses 1st innings and the other bosses 2nd innings you should be going with the one that dominates 1st innings more, it will win you more matches.

I don't judge batsmen based on their raw fourth innings numbers as it's too general. But I do think objectively there is more pressure, pre-Bazball, in larger fourth innings chases.

My point is that Smith has several high pressure innings in which he delivered, including the four tons in larger chases.