Fact you have to go almost 100 years back sort of proves my point
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Best team since Waugh/ Ponting’s Australia?
- Thread starter Chrish
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PaulLennon
U19 12th Man
Am talking about teams you make out of the 80s WI or 00s Aus team individually which was the point. You are combining the two teams and collating together players who are not even from the same era (Ambrose/Lara vs Garner).
Let me make this clearer. For WI take any date between 1980 and 1995 and for Aus between 1999 and 2007. Whatever date you choose, for both make an XI out of players who were available and not retired at that time (so no Lara/Garner combos). Assume they are all uninjured and in peak form.
Those two teams would be smashed by the team I mentioned.
So for Aus it would be
Langer
Hayden
Ponting
Martyn
Waugh
Waugh
Gilchrist
McGrath
Warne
Gillespie
Kaspro
WI it would be
Greenidge
Haynes
Richards
Lloyds
Gomes
_____________
Dujon
Marshall
Garner
Holding
Roberts
I think people underestimate how tough it is to face good bowling on friendly pitches, no matter how good the batting lineup. Ind in NZ 2002, Aus in Mumbai 2004, SA in Ind 2015. All it needs is for the batsmen to cobble up a score and then the bowlers can carve through the lineups.
PaulLennon
U19 12th Man
Those two never played at the same time. You can't be making hypothetical XIs.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
+Richie Richardson in the Windies side (you named 10)
Slifer
International Captain
Um you can ignore his posts. I bet that poster also thinks that this Indian team can also win against 80s WI team in the Caribbean. Not a snow balls chance in hell. And if by some stretch of the imagination WI were smashed in India, then the same could be said for India in the WI.
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
Generally agree with this, but given we tend to talk about the great sides in terms of eras rather than just a single year, I reckon it's a bit unfair on that post-war Australian generation to simply call them the 1948 team.
From the first post-war Test against New Zealand in early 1946 through to the end of the unofficial "World Championship" series against West Indies in January 1952 Australia played 31 Tests, winning 24 and losing two (one of those being a dead rubber at 4-0 up). Their series results were:
1-0 (1946 in New Zealand - one-off Test)
3-0 (1946/47 home v England)
4-0 (1947/48 home v India)
4-0 (1948 in England)
4-0 (1949/50 in South Africa)
4-1 (1950/51 home v England)
4-1 (1951/52 home v West Indies)
All a different era of course and so I'm not arguing that they were definitively better than the more modern champion sides we're discussing here, but I've always thought it was reductive to just refer to them as Bradman's 1948 team. For that 1946-52 period they were astonishingly good.
PaulLennon
U19 12th Man
Maybe a match but not a series.
But WI would be smashed in India and that's no stretch. That WI couldnt win in NZ and Pak (post Wasim's debut) and this Indian team is way stronger than those teams.
Slifer
International Captain
The only time WI of the 80s got smashed as you call it was ???wait for it never.
Posters like you make it hard to root for India. You won in Oz fair and square i gave india their due respect. You won in England ditto. And i was one of the few neutral posters who said that india were on their way to being a great team. And I've always said that this Indian team is impossible to beat at home. Look up my posts. But now even though India beat an horrible English team 3-1 at home, somehow you think a peak WI team of the 80s would get destroyed ie do worse. With no logic outside of the fact that because WI didn't win in Pakistan or NZ. In Pakistan using some silly caveat (wasim) because you very well know wi won a hard fought series in 1980.
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centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
He's saying India may win a single match but not series in WI.
But in India, WI will be defeated by the spin trio.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Nah Viv and Clive would just smash the spinners. Imagine them with modern day bats. It would be carnage.
Ashwin/Jadeja don't get smashed at home though? DRS also exists nowadays so padding up won't always work.
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Yes, but they've never faced anyone like Viv Richards - even in the IPL
Slifer
International Captain
I've always said that no team would beat the current Indian team at home and that includes 80s WI and 2000 Oz teams.
What he's implying is that WI would be smashed which imo translates to losing a 5 test series by at least 3 games. Or not winning a test at all. That's not logical because he uses 80s NZ as benchmarks but won't use England who India just beat 3-1 at home. No way in hell would an 80s WI team do worse than England.
The reverse also applies though. Can't have your cake and eat it when that WIs hasn't faced a great spin attack backed up by pacers who've outbowled every other pace attack in Indian conditions which have varied from flat tracks to spinning pitches.
That Indian side had a missing Jadeja/Umesh/Shami for the whole series and Bumrah/Siraj being tried out for the first time at home while Axar was injured for the first Test before coming in to take 27 wickets at an average of 10.8. Benchmarks are fine but context conveniently manages to go missing in these sorts of conversations for no real reason.
PaulLennon
U19 12th Man
You are being disingenuous again. The only reason Eng won a match was cause most of the first bowling attack was out injured. If Jadeja, axar, Shami, Umesh played the 1st test it's 4-0. In a hypothetical match-up we are assuming that the team is fit. O/w should we also consider a Windies team where Marshall, Holding, Roberts are injured?
Also it's not just England that have been smashed. An SA with ABDV, Amla, Faf, Steyn, Morkel, Philander etc were smashed 3-0 in 2015, Eng with Cook, Root, Anderson, Stokes 4-0 in 2016, NZ with Williamson, Taylor, Southee 3-0 in 2016.
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PaulLennon
U19 12th Man
Ind even smashed the GOAT NZ side 1-0 last month with a 62ao with half their first XI out.
subshakerz
International Coach
The level of hype for this Indian side is unreal.
PaulLennon
U19 12th Man
Viv averaged 45 in India against a far inferior bowling attack.
Some posts are hilarious ?
India got smoked in the first game against England fair and square. Same thing happened in first game against Australia. There is no shame in admitting that. I bet Shastri had a one-on-one with the curators the same day those games ended
India got smoked in the first game against England fair and square. Same thing happened in first game against Australia. There is no shame in admitting that. I bet Shastri had a one-on-one with the curators the same day those games ended
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