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Australian Domestic Season 2022-23
- Thread starter GoodAreasShane
- Start date
Nintendo
Cricketer Of The Year
It's honestly astounding. Davies, solway and hearne all make this lineup better. FFS i don't really rate either of nikitarras or hackney, but both would help the batting severely instead of forcing kpat to open.
GoodAreasShane
Cricketer Of The Year
Yeah, that looks a pretty awful batting lineup. Pretty sure KPat himself chose to move up the order though, at least that was the impression I got from that article on the CA website a little bit back. Not entirely sure it was really wise to mess with the one area that was working with the batting lineup.
Zampa the red ball bowler being a thing again is pretty grim too
Zampa the red ball bowler being a thing again is pretty grim too
TheJediBrah
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Which of Sangha, Gilkes and Henriques are you not considering a specialist batsman?
Burgey
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In keeping with Aus selectors loving a funky SC selection which never works and throws the team balance into turmoil, I bet he gets picked for India/
Burgey
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TBF neither Sangha nor Gilkes deserve to be considered specialist batsmen.
TheJediBrah
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Not a bad choice, he coached Victoria to a lot of success. Don't think NSW have the kind of talent Vic did though
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
NSW have plenty of talent in other states tbf. If he improves the selection process it might at least stop that happening so much so we can play Edwards, Sangha and nine bowlers in every game.
the big bambino
International Captain
Well blues selectors probably think “we won’t score many runs with that line up … better pick more bowlers to take out the opposition for less”
morgieb
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His early performances admittedly weren't great, but there had to have been a decent chance of him cracking it if he had a whole season ala Sangha/Edwards 2018/19.
At least Sangha is a genuinely excellent Grade cricketer even if he has had an extraordinarily long crack of the whip for one half-decent season at most. Edwards has had one decent season at Sydney Grade cricket and beyond that has averaged like 20. The vast majority of cricketers stuck at Grade level should rightfully be miffed.
Gilkes is an interesting one, he did at least start his career OK and earnt his crack but he just hasn't kicked on at all and doesn't even look like a talent, which I guess someone like Sangha at least does. I have no idea why he's ahead of Hearne, Davies or a multitude of openers (Macdonald, Hackney, Nikitaris, Solway) as things stand.
Jaques did have to go, but whether he was the biggest problem remains unclear. Alas, we won't really know for several months. Hopefully Shipperd is willing to select on merit rather than name.
morgieb
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Because I'm bored I'll have an extended look at the alleged Pathways players and NSW having good players that are being ignored in favour of inferior ones, and whether that theory actually holds up:
Jason Sangha:
Grade cricket:
2016/17: 12 matches, 294 runs @ 36.8
2017/18: 8 matches, 295 runs @ 49.2
2018/19: 6 matches, 175 runs @ 29.2
2019/20: 12 matches, 658 runs @ 82.3
2020/21: 5 matches, 223 runs @ 74.3
2021/22: 2 matches, 42 runs @ 21.0
Shield:
2018/19: 11 matches, 386 runs @ 21.44
2019/20: 1 match, 16 runs @ 16.00
2020/21: 4 matches, 191 runs @ 27.28
2021/22: 7 matches, 504 runs @ 38.76
2022/23: 5 matches, 192 runs @ 24.00
While I think he's definitely lucky to be so entrenched in the side, I'm not convinced his original selection was necessarily undeserving. They did definitely pick him for too many games, but it wasn't like he hadn't scored runs at senior level prior to selection and you can see why they took a punt on potential even if his track record wasn't all that long. And he did genuinely gun it at grade cricket to get a recall. Nevertheless, his spot has to be at best under significant question and it is a question genuinely worth pondering as to whether Hunt and Ward would still be in NSW if Sangha had gotten dropped in 2018/19...
Jack Edwards:
Grade cricket:
2016/17: 6 matches, 48 runs @ 9.6
2017/18: 9 matches, 103 runs @ 14.7
2018/19: 6 matches, 226 runs @ 45.2
2019/20: 11 matches, 185 runs @ 16.8
2020/21: 8 matches, 351 runs @ 50.1
2021/22: 4 matches, 43 runs @ 14.3
Shield:
2018/19: 11 matches, 410 runs @ 24.11
2019/20: 2 matches, 96 runs @ 48.00
2020/21: 2 matches, 56 runs @ 18.66
2021/22: 7 matches, 217 runs @ 18.08
2022/23: 1 match, 32 runs @ 16.00
While one can probably defend the Sangha experiment (even if basically no-one on the interwebs has), I don't see how Edwards can be defended. The guy wasn't even Grade cricket standard upon being picked, and has had two decent grade cricket seasons out of six. Beyond that he's been atrocious. At least he's no longer in the side now, but he still appears close to it. Frankly he should be a looonnnnggg way back.
Matt Gilkes:
Grade cricket:
2017/18: 11 matches, 291 runs @ 26.5
2018/19: 11 matches, 604 runs @ 50.3
2019/20: 9 matches, 271 runs @ 54.2
2020/21: 6 matches, 314 runs @ 52.3
2021/22: 1 match, 24 runs @ 24.0
Shield:
2019/20: 5 matches, 190 runs @ 27.14
2020/21: 2 matches, 175 runs @ 43.75
2021/22: 5 matches, 217 runs @ 27.10
2022/23: 4 matches, 133 runs @ 22.16
While Gilkes hasn't been out and out terrible at Shield level so far, he has been pretty consistently disappointing. I don't know if he's gotten a really undue ride and he has at least scored a lot of runs at the lower level (although I guess he hasn't really dominated there), but he really should be dropped and I have no idea why he hasn't been.
Lachlan Hearne:
Grade cricket:
2017/18: 7 matches, 282 runs @ 56.4
2018/19: 14 matches, 450 runs @ 37.5
2019/20: 10 matches, 478 runs @ 53.1
2020/21: 12 matches, 538 runs @ 48.9
2021/22: 10 matches, 445 runs @ 63.6
Shield:
2020/21: 1 match, 54 runs @ 27.00
2021/22: 3 matches, 143 runs @ 23.83
To play devil's advocate, those stats aren't that dissimilar to Gilkes's, for example. And he hasn't quite had a "jump off the page" style grade season ala Sangha's 2019/20. But he has clearly deserved more than 4 matches. I'm not sure he'll definitely make it, but his grade cricket record is miles better than Edwards, and he doesn't have the stench of failure that Sangha and to a lesser extent Gilkes has.
Henry Hunt:
Grade cricket:
2016/17: 13 matches, 232 runs @ 21.1
2017/18: 15 matches, 774 runs @ 55.3
2018/19: 14 matches, 315 runs @ 24.2
And now for something completely different, a guy that is proven an excellent Shield player and would quite obviously be our best bat if he had stayed in NSW. Yet of the three grade seasons only one of them was much good, and being an opener I think he was competing with Hughes and Larkin rather than the "fetuses". He did have a gun Futures season in 2018/19 though so maybe he was worth a crack for a game or two? I'm also not sure as to whether NSW offered him a contract for 2019/20 when he went to SA. If they did (even if it was only a rookie one) I'm not sure this is a massive **** up to let him go, but if they didn't it's a fair bit more questionable.
Tim Ward:
Grade cricket:
2016/17: 11 matches, 208 runs @ 26.0
2017/18: 17 matches, 774 runs @ 43.7
2018/19: 8 matches, 457 runs @ 76.2
2019/20: 14 matches, 717 runs @ 55.2
On the other hand, Ward went to Tassie without a contract which I don't think would've happened had NSW showed interest in keeping him. Again, you can argue that it was hard to dislodge Hughes/Larkin as an opener. But he had batted 3 a bit and his grade cricket record was consistently good and getting strong. It sounds like NSW just plain didn't think much of him as a cricketer......and that is a genuinely massive **** up.
Daniel Solway:
Grade cricket:
2015/16: 18 matches, 467 runs @ 25.9
2016/17: 16 matches, 384 runs @ 25.6
2017/18: 15 matches, 880 runs @ 73.3
2018/19: 15 matches, 697 runs @ 53.6
2019/20: 12 matches, 253 runs @ 23.0
2020/21: 10 matches, 164 runs @ 18.2
2021/22: 13 matches, 564 runs @ 56.4
Shield:
2019/20: 7 matches, 498 runs @ 55.33
2020/21: 6 matches, 216 runs @ 24.00
To finish off this journey we get to someone who was picked despite a lack of obvious Pathway investment....and got jettisoned fairly quickly despite a hot start. It's interesting that his grade record is actually quite inconsistent - my impression was that he was massively banging down the door for years before finally getting a callup, yet the stats suggest that that theory is to some extent exaggerated. Nevertheless, he at least did had one dominant Shield year, and while it's dubious as to whether he would've maintained the form had he not been dumped after 2020/21, he at least deserved a few more chances and you can't help but think that if he was still in the frame he might've turned around the poor 2020/21.
So in conclusion:
* Giving Sangha a taste back in 2018/19 was arguably defensible, but the ride he got that season probably wasn't and it's ensured he's had a stench of failure that even a great finish to the 2021/22 didn't go close to burning.
* Edwards's ride was far more of a joke, he frankly should never have gotten close to playing for NSW.
* Hearne can feel a bit peeved that he doesn't seem fully in the frame.
* Hunt was maybe deserving of a crack, but the case isn't as convincing as his form for SA makes it look.
* Ward really should've gotten a contract at some point, and he likely would've walked into the side once NSW lost faith in Larkin had NSW made even the slightest effort to pay attention to him.
I think there's others I could mention (Davies, Avendano, Bertus, Clarke), but I think I've at somewhat proven my point that while the Pathways theory is maybe somewhat exaggerated, there's clearly quite a lot of truth to it when you compare the cases of Ward and Edwards, just to give the most glaring example.
Jason Sangha:
Grade cricket:
2016/17: 12 matches, 294 runs @ 36.8
2017/18: 8 matches, 295 runs @ 49.2
2018/19: 6 matches, 175 runs @ 29.2
2019/20: 12 matches, 658 runs @ 82.3
2020/21: 5 matches, 223 runs @ 74.3
2021/22: 2 matches, 42 runs @ 21.0
Shield:
2018/19: 11 matches, 386 runs @ 21.44
2019/20: 1 match, 16 runs @ 16.00
2020/21: 4 matches, 191 runs @ 27.28
2021/22: 7 matches, 504 runs @ 38.76
2022/23: 5 matches, 192 runs @ 24.00
While I think he's definitely lucky to be so entrenched in the side, I'm not convinced his original selection was necessarily undeserving. They did definitely pick him for too many games, but it wasn't like he hadn't scored runs at senior level prior to selection and you can see why they took a punt on potential even if his track record wasn't all that long. And he did genuinely gun it at grade cricket to get a recall. Nevertheless, his spot has to be at best under significant question and it is a question genuinely worth pondering as to whether Hunt and Ward would still be in NSW if Sangha had gotten dropped in 2018/19...
Jack Edwards:
Grade cricket:
2016/17: 6 matches, 48 runs @ 9.6
2017/18: 9 matches, 103 runs @ 14.7
2018/19: 6 matches, 226 runs @ 45.2
2019/20: 11 matches, 185 runs @ 16.8
2020/21: 8 matches, 351 runs @ 50.1
2021/22: 4 matches, 43 runs @ 14.3
Shield:
2018/19: 11 matches, 410 runs @ 24.11
2019/20: 2 matches, 96 runs @ 48.00
2020/21: 2 matches, 56 runs @ 18.66
2021/22: 7 matches, 217 runs @ 18.08
2022/23: 1 match, 32 runs @ 16.00
While one can probably defend the Sangha experiment (even if basically no-one on the interwebs has), I don't see how Edwards can be defended. The guy wasn't even Grade cricket standard upon being picked, and has had two decent grade cricket seasons out of six. Beyond that he's been atrocious. At least he's no longer in the side now, but he still appears close to it. Frankly he should be a looonnnnggg way back.
Matt Gilkes:
Grade cricket:
2017/18: 11 matches, 291 runs @ 26.5
2018/19: 11 matches, 604 runs @ 50.3
2019/20: 9 matches, 271 runs @ 54.2
2020/21: 6 matches, 314 runs @ 52.3
2021/22: 1 match, 24 runs @ 24.0
Shield:
2019/20: 5 matches, 190 runs @ 27.14
2020/21: 2 matches, 175 runs @ 43.75
2021/22: 5 matches, 217 runs @ 27.10
2022/23: 4 matches, 133 runs @ 22.16
While Gilkes hasn't been out and out terrible at Shield level so far, he has been pretty consistently disappointing. I don't know if he's gotten a really undue ride and he has at least scored a lot of runs at the lower level (although I guess he hasn't really dominated there), but he really should be dropped and I have no idea why he hasn't been.
Lachlan Hearne:
Grade cricket:
2017/18: 7 matches, 282 runs @ 56.4
2018/19: 14 matches, 450 runs @ 37.5
2019/20: 10 matches, 478 runs @ 53.1
2020/21: 12 matches, 538 runs @ 48.9
2021/22: 10 matches, 445 runs @ 63.6
Shield:
2020/21: 1 match, 54 runs @ 27.00
2021/22: 3 matches, 143 runs @ 23.83
To play devil's advocate, those stats aren't that dissimilar to Gilkes's, for example. And he hasn't quite had a "jump off the page" style grade season ala Sangha's 2019/20. But he has clearly deserved more than 4 matches. I'm not sure he'll definitely make it, but his grade cricket record is miles better than Edwards, and he doesn't have the stench of failure that Sangha and to a lesser extent Gilkes has.
Henry Hunt:
Grade cricket:
2016/17: 13 matches, 232 runs @ 21.1
2017/18: 15 matches, 774 runs @ 55.3
2018/19: 14 matches, 315 runs @ 24.2
And now for something completely different, a guy that is proven an excellent Shield player and would quite obviously be our best bat if he had stayed in NSW. Yet of the three grade seasons only one of them was much good, and being an opener I think he was competing with Hughes and Larkin rather than the "fetuses". He did have a gun Futures season in 2018/19 though so maybe he was worth a crack for a game or two? I'm also not sure as to whether NSW offered him a contract for 2019/20 when he went to SA. If they did (even if it was only a rookie one) I'm not sure this is a massive **** up to let him go, but if they didn't it's a fair bit more questionable.
Tim Ward:
Grade cricket:
2016/17: 11 matches, 208 runs @ 26.0
2017/18: 17 matches, 774 runs @ 43.7
2018/19: 8 matches, 457 runs @ 76.2
2019/20: 14 matches, 717 runs @ 55.2
On the other hand, Ward went to Tassie without a contract which I don't think would've happened had NSW showed interest in keeping him. Again, you can argue that it was hard to dislodge Hughes/Larkin as an opener. But he had batted 3 a bit and his grade cricket record was consistently good and getting strong. It sounds like NSW just plain didn't think much of him as a cricketer......and that is a genuinely massive **** up.
Daniel Solway:
Grade cricket:
2015/16: 18 matches, 467 runs @ 25.9
2016/17: 16 matches, 384 runs @ 25.6
2017/18: 15 matches, 880 runs @ 73.3
2018/19: 15 matches, 697 runs @ 53.6
2019/20: 12 matches, 253 runs @ 23.0
2020/21: 10 matches, 164 runs @ 18.2
2021/22: 13 matches, 564 runs @ 56.4
Shield:
2019/20: 7 matches, 498 runs @ 55.33
2020/21: 6 matches, 216 runs @ 24.00
To finish off this journey we get to someone who was picked despite a lack of obvious Pathway investment....and got jettisoned fairly quickly despite a hot start. It's interesting that his grade record is actually quite inconsistent - my impression was that he was massively banging down the door for years before finally getting a callup, yet the stats suggest that that theory is to some extent exaggerated. Nevertheless, he at least did had one dominant Shield year, and while it's dubious as to whether he would've maintained the form had he not been dumped after 2020/21, he at least deserved a few more chances and you can't help but think that if he was still in the frame he might've turned around the poor 2020/21.
So in conclusion:
* Giving Sangha a taste back in 2018/19 was arguably defensible, but the ride he got that season probably wasn't and it's ensured he's had a stench of failure that even a great finish to the 2021/22 didn't go close to burning.
* Edwards's ride was far more of a joke, he frankly should never have gotten close to playing for NSW.
* Hearne can feel a bit peeved that he doesn't seem fully in the frame.
* Hunt was maybe deserving of a crack, but the case isn't as convincing as his form for SA makes it look.
* Ward really should've gotten a contract at some point, and he likely would've walked into the side once NSW lost faith in Larkin had NSW made even the slightest effort to pay attention to him.
I think there's others I could mention (Davies, Avendano, Bertus, Clarke), but I think I've at somewhat proven my point that while the Pathways theory is maybe somewhat exaggerated, there's clearly quite a lot of truth to it when you compare the cases of Ward and Edwards, just to give the most glaring example.
GoodAreasShane
Cricketer Of The Year
An excellent summary that, definitely has been some examples of questionable selection but the story isn't absolute black and white like it is sometimes percieced as.
Not sure if Hunt had any sort of NSW offer for the season he did come down here to Adelaide. What I do know is that it was a 96 he made against South Australia in the seconds the previous year that really was pretty significant in SACA offering him a contract in the first place. Although that being said Gilkes made 94 then too, but I guess he was already in around the NSW setup about then.
Then again Kelvin Smith of all people made a ton that game too so maybe it wasn't exactly the most challenging pitch going around
Not sure if Hunt had any sort of NSW offer for the season he did come down here to Adelaide. What I do know is that it was a 96 he made against South Australia in the seconds the previous year that really was pretty significant in SACA offering him a contract in the first place. Although that being said Gilkes made 94 then too, but I guess he was already in around the NSW setup about then.
Then again Kelvin Smith of all people made a ton that game too so maybe it wasn't exactly the most challenging pitch going around
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
I think Gilkes has only kept in one dayers, but could be wrong.
Spikey
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I think Gilkes has one or two shield matches as a keeper
I'm not really sure sacking the coach does much of anything. NSW has essentially been failing for close to a decade now regardless of coach. We have a couple of shields in that time, mainly due to test players helping us to wins earlier in the season and then some big knocks from Henriques to help get us a couple more wins over the season. They've failed at both being a good team and identifying talent. The institution seems to be broken as it's happening regardless of the big names in change.
What's forgotten sometimes is that NSW for a long time basically refused to pick youth. We instead brought back Ed Cowan, Nathan Lyon and Chris Tremain. We somehow gave shield caps to two spinners who would go onto play international cricket for other countries. Daniel Solway and Harry Conway debuted years after they finished in the junior pathways. Nick Larkin was a sick joke, a 30yo averaging 29 over 35 games. There was that season in maybe 2018/19 where Sean Abbott batted 7 for most of it and I think averaged about 7.
Sangha and Edwards are the two we can point to, but even, they had a season where they got picked for basically every game...and then the next season they basically refused to pick them. Which is a classic NSW move, stick and pick, and then dump at the end of the season and find a new stick and pick. They only really returned to being picked all the time after NSW was bowled out for 32 in the 2020/21 season. Even in morgieb's post, it's worth noting that Hunt, Ward (and I'd add Solway as well as he should have been given a lengthy shot at opening) were not fighting with Sangha and Edwards, they were fighting with Hughes and Larkin. (After the 32ao, they then went full youth and used Gilkes as opener for a little bit)
edit and of course, there was that time they seemed to decide that they simply couldn't be ****ed with MadDog and didn't offer him a contract.
I'm not really sure sacking the coach does much of anything. NSW has essentially been failing for close to a decade now regardless of coach. We have a couple of shields in that time, mainly due to test players helping us to wins earlier in the season and then some big knocks from Henriques to help get us a couple more wins over the season. They've failed at both being a good team and identifying talent. The institution seems to be broken as it's happening regardless of the big names in change.
What's forgotten sometimes is that NSW for a long time basically refused to pick youth. We instead brought back Ed Cowan, Nathan Lyon and Chris Tremain. We somehow gave shield caps to two spinners who would go onto play international cricket for other countries. Daniel Solway and Harry Conway debuted years after they finished in the junior pathways. Nick Larkin was a sick joke, a 30yo averaging 29 over 35 games. There was that season in maybe 2018/19 where Sean Abbott batted 7 for most of it and I think averaged about 7.
Sangha and Edwards are the two we can point to, but even, they had a season where they got picked for basically every game...and then the next season they basically refused to pick them. Which is a classic NSW move, stick and pick, and then dump at the end of the season and find a new stick and pick. They only really returned to being picked all the time after NSW was bowled out for 32 in the 2020/21 season. Even in morgieb's post, it's worth noting that Hunt, Ward (and I'd add Solway as well as he should have been given a lengthy shot at opening) were not fighting with Sangha and Edwards, they were fighting with Hughes and Larkin. (After the 32ao, they then went full youth and used Gilkes as opener for a little bit)
edit and of course, there was that time they seemed to decide that they simply couldn't be ****ed with MadDog and didn't offer him a contract.
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