Asim Kamal - what the?

[Gangster]

i don't judge players solely on statistics like you, the reason quite simply is that i've seen both of them bowl quite a bit and rate gul higher than shabbir

Shabbir is taller, and the likes of Harmison demonstrate that height is a critical element. Look at well he's doing in South Africa if you need proof.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

The strength of the West Indian WHAT?

Less like a machete and more like a butter knife.

Hmmm... I wouldn't call it overly strong per se, but the West Indies does have a decent ODI attack. Bradshaw, Collymore, Gayle, Bravo, Hinds/Hinds is by no means poor.

 

[bryce]

Shabbir is taller, and the likes of Harmison demonstrate that height is a critical element. Look at well he's doing in South Africa if you need proof.

it's tough to compare him to gul when gul has been out for a while though, i think gul has all the makings of a great bowler and despite shabbir's very good test record i don't think the same of him - just my opinion

 

[Adamc]

Shabbir is taller, and the likes of Harmison demonstrate that height is a critical element. Look at well he's doing in South Africa if you need proof.

Not sure how Harmison's performance in South Africa backs up your argument... he has taken 7 wickets in the current series at more than 60 runs apiece.

 

[wahindiawah]

does anyone remember this guy Shahid nazir ,he played for pakistan ,and is really doing well in domestic cricket

Well that is pure desperation, isn't it? a tried and tested 27 year old player ( actual age would probably be above 30) is being considered now when all the so call promissing pacers have failed (the Rao's,Sami, asif, Khalil,Naveed,Riaz...etc).

I was such a big fan of Pak pace bowlers but with the retirement of the great W's an era of great Pakistani pacers have come to an end.Pakistan will never be able to find champions again.Its just like in Squash where Pakistan had once produced Champs like Jahangir Khan and Jansher Khan but now there is no one to talk about.

 

[wahindiawah]

R NUH has to be one of the worst bowlers I've ever seen at international-level - albeit capable of bowling some extraordinary deliveries such as the Langer one.

Rana isn't that awful, especially when one have seen the likes of Khalil, yasir Ali,
Rao and Fas-le-akber.

 

[wahindiawah]

That's certainly not the worst side and if India's current class continues their extremely unconvincing manner I'd back Pakistan without hesitancy.
However, I've been saying for ages that it's a matter of time only until the Indian batting gets it's act together and I still don't think it'll be long.

Pakistani batsmen wouldn't be able to last 3 days of test matches against Indian spinners in India.The wkts in India wouldn't have anything for Akhter and as such he will get PASTED in the first two match and will miss the last test match (something which is now his regular feature).
No bias here, i realistically think Pakistan have no chance.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Well that is pure desperation, isn't it? a tried and tested 27 year old player ( actual age would probably be above 30) is being considered now when all the so call promissing pacers have failed (the Rao's,Sami, asif, Khalil,Naveed,Riaz...etc).

And yet he's done better than a fair few Pakistani pacers in internationals and has been doing well in domestic cricket. Yes... desperation.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Pakistani batsmen wouldn't be able to last 3 days of test matches against Indian spinners in India.The wkts in India wouldn't have anything for Akhter and as such he will get PASTED in the first two match and will miss the last test match (something which is now his regular feature).
No bias here, i realistically think Pakistan have no chance.

Shoaib Akhtar has played one match in India. He took 8 wickets for 118 runs in that match with 4 in each innings. His wickets included R Dravid (x2), VVS Laxman and SR Tendulkar.

Not seeing how you can be certain about his prowess on Indian pitches based on that evidence.

 

[Richard]

i don't judge players solely on statistics like you, the reason quite simply is that i've seen both of them bowl quite a bit and rate gul higher than shabbir

And I've seen both bowl quite a bit and I rate Shabbir higher than Umar Gul.

 

[Richard]

Rana isn't that awful, especially when one have seen the likes of Khalil, yasir Ali,
Rao and Fas-le-akber.

Fazl-e-Akbar occasionally looked good to me but equally there have been times when he's looked terrible.
I'd say if he'd been born in South Africa (or possibly Australia) he'd be rather good. Maybe New Zealand too.

 

[Richard]

Pakistani batsmen wouldn't be able to last 3 days of test matches against Indian spinners in India.The wkts in India wouldn't have anything for Akhter and as such he will get PASTED in the first two match and will miss the last test match (something which is now his regular feature).
No bias here, i realistically think Pakistan have no chance.

There is no such thing as a wicket that has nothing in it for Shoaib Akhtar.
He bowls well, he'll tear any batting to shreds, there's no two ways about that.
No, I don't rate Pakistan's batsmen's chances against Kumble and Harbhajan on turners, but The BCCI need the sense to produce the things first - something we've not seen much of of late.

 

[Richard]

The strength of the West Indian WHAT?

Less like a machete and more like a butter knife.

There are plenty of worse attacks around ATM than Dillon, Bradshaw, Collymore, Bravo, Gayle (with Hinds\Hinds to provide back-up).
India's and Pakistan's are far worse at present.

 

[PAKMAN]

bob doesnt even know about shahid nazir eh thats strange

5622: SAMIAKH, (06 JAN 2005, 18H21:06)

Hi Bob:

You have not responded to my last few e-mails but I understand you must be busy. I have a couple of questions/observations:

1) You state that Mohd. Asif probably needs to add a yard of pace to become more effective on the international circuit. Yet if you look at guys like Mcgrath and Pollock, they have been successful staying between 125-135K's. Which is generally where Asif bowled. Is'nt is more a question of bowling the right channel and hitting the seam consistently, rather than pure pace?

2) You state that you saw Shahid Nazir in the fast bowlers camp held prior to the Aus tour. Is that true? I thought he wasn't invited.

3) Waqar commented that the selectors should have sent more experienced pace bowling support for Akhtar. Given that Shabbir and Gul are out, was he talking about himself?! I mean, with those guys out the only others with test experience were Fazle-Akbar (please God no!), Azhar Mehmood (I guess he would not have done any worse than Sami) and Shahid Nazir (should have been on the tour all along). Waqar was a great Pakistani fast bowler, but cricket commentary/analysis is not his forte.

4) I am a Sr. Manager at an Investment firm. Last year I had to make a personnel decision on my team. I had a superstar who could really turn it on when he wanted, but more often than not was destructive to the team spirit. After almost 2 years of deliberation I finally let him go last year. 2004 was the best year the team had has in 5. (Hint! Hint!)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
REPLY BY: BOB, (07 Jan 2005, 06h27:36)
Hi Samiakh,
1. Yes but he is nopt a Pollock type bowler he has promise needs to get stronger physically but I thought he did well.
2. No I didn't see him
3. People say things but we did not have much choice. Shahid Nazir though apparently bowled well on the last Australian tour. I wish I had known. I should have looked it up!! We definitely needed more experience with the ball.
4. Ok
Bob

 

[Gangster]

Not sure how Harmison's performance in South Africa backs up your argument... he has taken 7 wickets in the current series at more than 60 runs apiece.

Sarcasm...

 

[Gangster]

There are plenty of worse attacks around ATM than Dillon, Bradshaw, Collymore, Bravo, Gayle (with Hinds\Hinds to provide back-up).
India's and Pakistan's are far worse at present.

There goes that crack smoking again!!!!! So Mr. Statistician, why don't you show me some stats to back up this (dumb) assertion?

 

[tooextracool]

There goes that crack smoking again!!!!! So Mr. Statistician, why don't you show me some stats to back up this (dumb) assertion?

err hes right.
bradshaw has an ER of 3.93, dillon and gayle both have 4.57 and collymore has 4.35, certainly far better than the ER's of the india and pakistan bowlers.

 

[thierry henry]

I agree with most of that (still not completely convinced about Hameed but he certainly played well this Test) but how on Earth you could prefer Rana Naved-Ul-Hasan to Shabbir is beyond me.
R NUH has to be one of the worst bowlers I've ever seen at international-level - albeit capable of bowling some extraordinary deliveries such as the Langer one.

What's so bad about Rana?? From what little I've seen he seems to have quite a compact action and can be relatively accurate, compared to some of the other candidates. Plus he can swing it and generally bowls at a decent-to-brisk pace.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

What's so bad about Rana?? From what little I've seen he seems to have quite a compact action and can be relatively accurate, compared to some of the other candidates. Plus he can swing it and generally bowls at a decent-to-brisk pace.

He's hardly converted that accuracy to economy and swing to wickets though. Though I do consider him not to be the worst bowler I've seen by any means. I'd certainly not say he's worse than Sami.

 

[Craig]

I thought he did a good job.