Ashley Noffke

[Richard]

Well I said bowling the ball that goes back into the right-hander - describing a delivery that does the same thing regardless of whether it's a left-hander on strike. Doesn't matter what the wickets of right-handers came from.

Most of the balls he bowled in that spell were away-swingers to the left-hander, in-swingers to the right-hander.

 

[Pup Clarke]

You specifically mentioned right handed batsmen though.

 

[Richard]

As a means of describing the delivery. To describe an inswinger\outswinger, you need to state which type of batsman it swings into \ away from...

 

[Flem274*]

Don't really see the logic tbh. Pretty arbitrary stuff you're saying here with no real foundation. Sort of a weird CW argument, "Because a>b and a is two steps a way from world class therefore b can't be two steps away from world class". Don't really see how that disproves that b isnt far off at all.

Furthermore, if you'd watch Johnson in ODIs he really is quite close to becoming a rather exceptional young bowler. He creates awkward angles at a great pace and really troubles alot of batsmen. I think I've seen nearly every ODI game he's played and he improves every single game, so I'm not really sure what you're basing that on either.

Look you said Johnson is a couple of steps away from world class. Franklin is better than Johnson and yet he is quite a way from being world class. So if Johnson is so close to being world class he would have to be better than Franklin but he isn't, therefore he cannot be so close to being world class.

In ODIs from what I have seen he is rather poor. I did not see his India tour so he may have suddenly become good, I don't know. If he has improved drastically then I will get to see it for the first time in the CB series and whichever overseas tour against decent opposition he goes on next, because bowling away from home turf could have an effect. So far from what I have seen however he is nothing to write home about unless you are a bunch of Aussie commentators for Channel 9.

 

[pasag]

Look you said Johnson is a couple of steps away from world class. Franklin is better than Johnson and yet he is quite a way from being world class. So if Johnson is so close to being world class he would have to be better than Franklin but he isn't, therefore he cannot be so close to being world class.

In ODIs from what I have seen he is rather poor. I did not see his India tour so he may have suddenly become good, I don't know. If he has improved drastically then I will get to see it for the first time in the CB series and whichever overseas tour against decent opposition he goes on next, because bowling away from home turf could have an effect. So far from what I have seen however he is nothing to write home about unless you are a bunch of Aussie commentators for Channel 9.

Johnson poor in ODIs? I'm not sure what you're watching then? He got picked in Tests from looking great in ODIs. How much have you seen him play anyways or are you basing this on stats or whatever? The guy is new on the scene and is improving constantly, he's not the finished product yet and with a bit of experience and a few seasons under his belt he will be world class.

And again, the whole Franklin argument is useless. If you want to say Johnson lacks certain skills, accuracy whatever, fine. But saying another player is better and he isn't as good is just a house of cards argument that doesn't actually mean anything because we can't define what world class and especially its step away are and if a is categorically better than b anyways. And I didn't say he's a few steps away anyways, Top_Cat did and you attempted to refute that with this flimsy argument - using Franklin as a benchmark to determine all things in world cricket. Just a real stretch at every step.

 

[NZTailender]

Johnson poor in ODIs? I'm not sure what you're watching then? He got picked in Tests from looking great in ODIs. How much have you seen him play anyways or are you basing this on stats or whatever? The guy is new on the scene and is improving constantly, he's not the finished product yet and with a bit of experience and a few seasons under his belt he will be world class.

And again, the whole Franklin argument is useless. If you want to say Johnson lacks certain skills, accuracy whatever, fine. But saying another player is better and he isn't as good is just a house of cards argument that doesn't actually mean anything because we can't define what world class and especially its step away are and if a is categorically better than b anyways. And I didn't say he's a few steps away anyways, Top_Cat did and you attempted to refute that with this flimsy argument - using Franklin as a benchmark to determine all things in world cricket. Just a real stretch at every step.

Flem just trying to talk up NZ players imo.

 

[Top_Cat]

Johnson poor in ODIs? I'm not sure what you're watching then? He got picked in Tests from looking great in ODIs. How much have you seen him play anyways or are you basing this on stats or whatever? The guy is new on the scene and is improving constantly, he's not the finished product yet and with a bit of experience and a few seasons under his belt he will be world class.

And again, the whole Franklin argument is useless. If you want to say Johnson lacks certain skills, accuracy whatever, fine. But saying another player is better and he isn't as good is just a house of cards argument that doesn't actually mean anything because we can't define what world class and especially its step away are and if a is categorically better than b anyways. And I didn't say he's a few steps away anyways, Top_Cat did and you attempted to refute that with this flimsy argument - using Franklin as a benchmark to determine all things in world cricket. Just a real stretch at every step.

In fairness, I think Flem may have only seen him in the Chappell-Hadlee series in NZ where he was thumped.

 

[pasag]

In fairness, I think Flem may have only seen him in the Chappell-Hadlee series in NZ where he was thumped.

I hope he's watching today

Gets the outside edge of Tendulkar, but it just falls just short of Hayden as I type.

 

[Flem274*]

I hope he's watching today

Gets the outside edge of Tendulkar, but it just falls just short of Hayden as I type.

He sure is.

In ODIs I have seen Johnson in CH, and CB series. If he has improved since then then I will take your word for it.

Look, Franklin and Johnson are similar cricketers and hence Franklin is my example. Franklin (IMO) > Johnson (yes I do realize this is all in my opinion, if yours is different then I can see your argument). Franklin is not world class by any stretch of the imagination and if Johnson is not better than Franklin then how can he be so close to being world class when the better bowler isn't? It seems like you're saying he's building the space rocket when he cannot even build an engine yet.

 

[pasag]

Johnson has improved constantly since his debut, almost every game he seems to pick something small up. It's not too out there to assume that at his current rate of improvement, when he is already troubling this top notch Indian attack in his first year or so that he's not too far away from world class, whatever that means. Does that have anything to with Franklin? Nothing imo.

If you think Johnson doesn't have certain tools, nor the potential from watching him, that's fine. But as I said, the Franklin comparison is flimsy at best. It's like me saying that Marshall is better than McGrath because Marshall is ten times better than Franklin and McGrath is only nine times better than Franklin. Not something I'd entertain seriously, regardless of whether you consider them similar players.

 

[Flem274*]

Johnson has improved constantly since his debut, almost every game he seems to pick something small up. It's not too out there to assume that at his current rate of improvement, when he is already troubling this top notch Indian attack in his first year or so that he's not too far away from world class, whatever that means. Does that have anything to with Franklin? Nothing imo.

If you think Johnson doesn't have certain tools, nor the potential from watching him, that's fine. But as I said, the Franklin comparison is flimsy at best. It's like me saying that Marshall is better than McGrath because Marshall is ten times better than Franklin and McGrath is only nine times better than Franklin. Not something I'd entertain seriously, regardless of whether you consider them similar players.

I was using Franklin as an example of someone is better but for the purposes of clarity, I'll use no player example.

There are better bowlers than Johnson who are quite a way from world class as they stand atm so to suggest Johnson is close to world class despite being worse than other bowlers who are no where near world class just doesn't seem to fit IMO.

IMO Johnson could prove himself to be world class in five years time but such a transformation takes a while unless your name is Michael Hussey or Stuart Clark. ATM he just doesn't seem to be accurate enough to get to world class level anytime soon.

Of course you may/probably disagree with this and that is fine, if he starts destroying teams from tommorow onwards and then on for the next 6-7 years I will (grudgingly, as he's an Aussie) eat my humble pie. I think howver, that he has a long way to go before he starts doing this.

 

[NZTailender]

Franklin is not world class by any stretch of the imagination

Yes he is. A strike rate of under 50 and an average under 30 in test match cricket suggests he is world class, and a good bat to boot.

 

[Richard]

Dunno if that makes him World-class TBH, not that I'm a massive fan of that phrase anyway - it's a fairly ambiguous, unspecific one.

I'd expect someone termed such to be averaging less than 27 at the very least. If not less than 24. Franklin has, for mine, been merely "a good bowler" so far in his Test career, though he'd be better if he wasn't so hopelessly wayward on occasion.

 

[Flem274*]

Yes he is. A strike rate of under 50 and an average under 30 in test match cricket suggests he is world class, and a good bat to boot.

Nah not quite there yet IMO. Then again I'm a huge fan of accurate bowlers so I'm slightly prejudiced..

Also make your mind up whether I'm talking kiwi players up or criticising them.

 

[Flem274*]

Dunno if that makes him World-class TBH, not that I'm a massive fan of that phrase anyway - it's a fairly ambiguous, unspecific one.

I'd expect someone termed such to be averaging less than 27 at the very least. If not less than 24. Franklin has, for mine, been merely "a good bowler" so far in his Test career, though he'd be better if he wasn't so hopelessly wayward on occasion.

The problem with Franklin is he's slightly inaccurate and on flat pitches which are more frequent these days he is more likely to get hit.

Whats Noffke like as a bowler BTW?

 

[Captain Cricket]

Noffke has an average of 28.28 in FC cricket and 34.74 in List A. He bowls with good rhythm from a high, straightforward action and gets excellent pace through most of his spells.

 

[LongHopCassidy]

Noffke has an average of 28.28 in FC cricket and 34.74 in List A. He bowls with good rhythm from a high, straightforward action and gets excellent pace through most of his spells.

Captain Cricket - writer of the bios on the official CA trading cards.

 

[vic_orthdox]

Is it just me, or didn't Johnson's balls more seam away from the left handers anyway. Might have been a hint of swing with Pathan's, but it definitely left him more when it hit the deck, and Yuvraj was all off the deck.

 

[iamdavid]

Whats Noffke like as a bowler BTW?

Stuart Clark + 5kph

 

[Richard]

Are you seriously telling me Noffke has the accuracy or the intelligence (possibly only in the long-form game) of Clark?

Or at least, has possessed it before this season?