Andy Flower's Wicket Keeping, just how good was he?

[Prince EWS]

I know some of us like to joke about Queensland being behind the times, but it's a real revelation that they didn't have television in Brisbane in 2003

(Ignoring, of course, the fact he played three ODIs there, albeit none of them against Australia)

He probably played a couple of Shield matches there for SA too, but he didn't keep often for them.

 

[Coronis]

He probably played a couple of Shield matches there for SA too, but he didn't keep often for them.

Almost like he and the team were better off without him keeping

 

[honestbharani]

Almost like he and the team were better off without him keeping

By that logic, Samson is a better keeper than Buttler.

I think domestic sides get overseas international keepers to play as batsmen sometimes to help their own domestic player make their case for national selection.

 

[TheJediBrah]

By that logic, Samson is a better keeper than Buttler.

I think domestic sides get overseas international keepers to play as batsmen sometimes to help their own domestic player make their case for national selection.

no he's definitely correct

South Australia had a proper keeper (pretty sure it was Graham Manou). They didn't need, nor would they have benefited from, Flower keeping.

They also had Shane Deitz already playing as a specialist batsman who would have kept ahead of Flower if needed

 

[Prince EWS]

Manou was a really serious gloveman too. Even people who mistakenly insist Flower was alright wouldn't be crazy enough to say Flower should keep ahead of him. He'd have kept over Gilchrist (unless they just dropped him I guess).

 

[honestbharani]

no he's definitely correct

South Australia had a proper keeper (pretty sure it was Graham Manou). They didn't need, nor would they have benefited from, Flower keeping.

They also had Shane Deitz already playing as a specialist batsman who would have kept ahead of Flower if needed

See Manou was in the mix for Australian selection, if I am not wrong. And it may well be that Manou was better than Flower as a keeper. I have not seen Manou keep to comment. But my point is, even if Flower was Gilchrist level, if he was only playing a couple of games as an overseas pro for South Australia, they would still have Manou keep to help his cause towards the national side.

 

[TheJediBrah]

See Manou was in the mix for Australian selection, if I am not wrong.

Not really tbh. He was extremely fortunate to get a Test match in the 2009 Ashes when he was a back up keeper (even then not convinced he was actually the 2nd best in the country).

And it may well be that Manou was better than Flower as a keeper.

Bro . . .

But my point is, even if Flower was Gilchrist level, if he was only playing a couple of games as an overseas pro for South Australia, they would still have Manou keep to help his cause towards the national side.

I guess so? But why

 

[honestbharani]

I guess so? But why

Coz that is how teams use overseas keepers all the time, unless they have them for the full season. And even in such cases, they often priortize the home player keeping to make their case for national selection.

 

[TheJediBrah]

Coz that is how teams use overseas keepers all the time, unless they have them for the full season. And even in such cases, they often priortize the home player keeping to make their case for national selection.

Yeah I get it, just don't get how it's relevant to the post you responded to. SA were better off without Flower keeping, because they had a better keeper who made the team stronger by keeping. It's not that deep

 

[honestbharani]

Yeah I get it, just don't get how it's relevant to the post you responded to. SA were better off without Flower keeping, because they had a better keeper who made the team stronger by keeping. It's not that deep

I meant the overseas pro not keeping can be for many reasons and its not the same case always.

 

[Coronis]

I mean… they wouldn’t be getting an overseas keeper and making him put down the gloves unless he’s a middle order bat would they?

 

[peterhrt]

Andy Flower joined Essex in 2002. That year he played 14 county champioship matches and 24 List A games for the county. He kept wicket in 36 of the 38 matches even though James Foster was on the books. On a couple of occasions Foster played as a batsman with Flower taking the gloves. Prior to that Flower had played three matches for MCC against touring sides and kept wicket in two of them.

After 2002 he hardly ever kept wicket and never did so for South Australia. This was also when he stopped playing Test cricket.

 

[Chubb]

Andy Flower joined Essex in 2002. That year he played 14 county champioship matches and 24 List A games for the county. He kept wicket in 36 of the 38 matches even though James Foster was on the books. On a couple of occasions Foster played as a batsman with Flower taking the gloves. Prior to that Flower had played three matches for MCC against touring sides and kept wicket in two of them.

After 2002 he hardly ever kept wicket and never did so for South Australia. This was also when he stopped playing Test cricket.

Foster was out for much of 2002 due to a broken arm.

 

[Coronis]

Foster was out for much of 2002 due to a broken arm.

Played 4 FC matches, Flower played in 2 of those. Interestingly they split the keeping duties.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Played 4 FC matches, Flower played in 2 of those. Interestingly they split the keeping duties.

Pretty sure Foster was amongst the best keepers of his Era..... Interesting

 

[capt_Luffy]

Andy Flower joined Essex in 2002. That year he played 14 county champioship matches and 24 List A games for the county. He kept wicket in 36 of the 38 matches even though James Foster was on the books. On a couple of occasions Foster played as a batsman with Flower taking the gloves. Prior to that Flower had played three matches for MCC against touring sides and kept wicket in two of them.

After 2002 he hardly ever kept wicket and never did so for South Australia. This was also when he stopped playing Test cricket.

Have you seen Flower keep?

 

[peterhrt]

Foster broke his arm in the nets in May. He came back in July and kept wicket in two matches before handing the gloves to Flower and playing occasionally as a batsman. In September Foster returned to keeping for Essex when Flower was out of the side.

Earlier that year Foster lost his place in the England One-Day side when Marcus Trescothick was given the gloves.

 

[peterhrt]

Have you seen Flower keep?

Yes - he could do a job but didn't really look a natural. Christopher Martin-Jenkins thought that captaincy had an adverse effect on his wicket-keeping.

 

[Thala_0710]

Yes - he could do a job but didn't really look a natural. Christopher Martin-Jenkins thought that captaincy had an adverse effect on his wicket-keeping.

So a modern equivalent might be Pant? Or worse than him?

 

[peterhrt]

So a modern equivalent might be Pant? Or worse than him?

Pant probably made more errors, while facing more difficult bowling and conditions, and was in the spotlight to a much greater extent. Part of the confusion around Flower's wicket-keeping comes from folk not taking much notice of it.