Fuller Pilch
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
If he was that bad, why did he take the keeping gloves off Houghton? Was Houghton worse, or as captain did he want to focus on batting and captaincy?
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Andy Flower's Wicket Keeping, just how good was he?
- Thread starter Thala_0710
- Start date
Paranoid Kendroid
School Boy/Girl Captain
What about the other way around? Good/great keepers whose reputation dropped with time for no reason.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
I'm too young to remember him but Houghton was apparently not great either - similar standard to Flower but was older and had lots of hats.
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
CK10 says: gun post.In my opinion, Flower was a below-average wicketkeeper, especially by Test standards.
Just look at these
16.56
7.02
Over time, his keeping didn’t improve. If anything, it seemed to decline. That’s likely why, once a more capable option became available, Zimbabwe moved the gloves to Taibu and looked to keep Flower as a specialist batsman instead. His value with the bat was undeniable, but as a keeper, he didn’t quite meet the demands of top-level cricket.
kyear2
Hall of Fame Member
And the phrasing
It's something that pops up when reading match reports as well, so that's what's mystifying when others state that he was solid and didn't make many mistakes.
He was a poor gloveman.
Yeah, that's the key phrase from both videos.
It's something that pops up when reading match reports as well, so that's what's mystifying when others state that he was solid and didn't make many mistakes.
He was a poor gloveman.
Chubb
International Regular
If you asked him, I don’t think he would say he was a good keeper. He wasn’t terrible but he did it because it helped the team balance.
I can’t see the video @MasterBlaster24 posted for some reason but I assume it is from the 2000 England series. He did not like keeping in England and was very disappointed with his performance in the Lords test. He actually considered giving 16 year old Taibu a debut in the second game. Worth noting Taibu also struggled in 2003 despite being a much more natural keeper than Flower.
When he was at Essex he didn’t keep much because they had Foster.
I can’t see the video @MasterBlaster24 posted for some reason but I assume it is from the 2000 England series. He did not like keeping in England and was very disappointed with his performance in the Lords test. He actually considered giving 16 year old Taibu a debut in the second game. Worth noting Taibu also struggled in 2003 despite being a much more natural keeper than Flower.
When he was at Essex he didn’t keep much because they had Foster.
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CricAddict
International Coach
Greatest wicket-keepers of all time: Andy Flower
Greatest wicket-keepers of all time: Andy Flower
CricAddict
International Coach
Yeah, I agree. I am as well not saying that he was great but just that he was a safe keeper for regulation catching. I am just going by what I remember from seeing the matches.
OverratedSanity
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Thank god someone did the work and produced the video evidence. Doubt it'll be enough for the crowd that seem to have decided we're making **** up about Flower not being a good keeper though.In my opinion, Flower was a below-average wicketkeeper, especially by Test standards.
Just look at these
16.56
7.02
Over time, his keeping didn’t improve. If anything, it seemed to decline. That’s likely why, once a more capable option became available, Zimbabwe moved the gloves to Taibu and looked to keep Flower as a specialist batsman instead. His value with the bat was undeniable, but as a keeper, he didn’t quite meet the demands of top-level cricket.
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CricAddict
International Coach
Yes, it is not enough for me just like how the below video won't suffice to say that he is the all time best keeper. As Chubb says Flower himself admitted that his keeping was bad in the Lords test. (which in turn implies that he was not so bad in the other tests). So, showing that as an example that he was terrible in all tests won't be enough. And discounting kyear, I am not sure if any of you (OS, TJB, PEWS) who says he is terrible has seen him keeping live in matches as I believe you are all fairly young compared to his playing days.
OverratedSanity
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What kind of ridiculous logic is this?
You've made up your mind at this point despite being provided the evidence you've been asking for (two drops which even Kamran would be ashamed of). So you're disregarding the video evidence and also disregarding my opinion of having watched him keeping because apparently I was too young. There is no convincing you and this entire discussion is pointless. You're free to keep thinking he wasn't a bad keeper.
TheJediBrah
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All love to CricAddict but we've been through this exact production with him nearly half a dozen times over the course of years. He's never going to change his mind.
Coronis
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I can’t vouch for the other two but I’m 90% sure PEWS recently celebrated his 220th birthday.
CricAddict
International Coach
Ha ha yes. I am not sure if we will resolve it in this lifetime. As usual, let us agree to disagree
TheJediBrah
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Not that there's any point, but I was an avid keeper in my early years and it was something I always paid a lot of attention to when watching as well. The thing that stood out to me the most about Flower's keeping wasn't the dropped catches and errors (which there were plenty) but more his general keeping technique and movement which were virtually non-existent. He never looked like a proper keeper, in a way that I didn't really see at that level outside part-timers like Rahul Dravid and Jimmy Maher.
ataraxia
International Coach
Nah you don't know what you're talking about. Flower was obviously an above average keeper and I don't want to hear another word from anyone who actually watched his career.
JBMAC
State Captain
He never played at The Gabba so i have not seen him as a keeper. From the little i have seen of him in film clips all i can say is He seemed a very tidy Keeper though not in the class of my top 5 (Tallon ,Grout, Evans ,Engineer and Maclean)
shortpitched713
Cricketer Of The Year
I'm sure you've seen hundreds of keepers over the years though. It would make sense that he wouldn't crack that.
I guess you seem to be indicating you expect him to be at least average or above average, which is kind of a revelation based on the general thrust of opinion in the thread thus far.
Starfighter
Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I know some of us like to joke about Queensland being behind the times, but it's a real revelation that they didn't have television in Brisbane in 2003
(Ignoring, of course, the fact he played three ODIs there, albeit none of them against Australia)