Ambrose vs Imran vs Steyn

[Slifer]

He consistently comes 6th in these exercises, specially after these two.

Yes and this is inspite of Subz' best efforts to disparage Ambrose

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Imran(like Donald) just doesn’t have the same peer rating as someone like Ambrose

 

[OverratedSanity]

I thought Imran would get more votes. I guess he’s a level below with like Donald.

I'd have voted for imran over ambrose in a 1 v 1 poll tbh.

 

[Line and Length]

Some of these comparisons are becoming dreadfully repetitive.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

I think you need at least a sub-30 average to qualify as good.

Yes

Average of 29.5 - Good
Average of 30.5 - Bad

 

[kyear2]

Yes

Average of 29.5 - Good
Average of 30.5 - Bad

Anything above 25 is borderline in an ATG comp tbh

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Anything above 25 is borderline in an ATG comp tbh

Agreed but Steyn in Australia is an exception. Amazing WPM, great SR amazing performances, and better averaged than others of the era, against a very good lineup(especially in his first series). And Steyn in Eng is good, cause he averaged about 20 less than prime Broad and Anderson(who are some of the deadliest bowlers in such conditions in the 21st century atleast, and brilliant WPM still.

 

[subshakerz]

Yes

Average of 29.5 - Good
Average of 30.5 - Bad

I never said bad. I said middling.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Very little between these three bowlers anyways and all points being said have been repeated in the past few threads

 

[PlayerComparisons]

29.9 - Good
30.1 - Middling

 

[subshakerz]

Agreed but Steyn in Australia is an exception. Amazing WPM, great SR amazing performances, and better averaged than others of the era, against a very good lineup(especially in his first series). And Steyn in Eng is good, cause he averaged about 20 less than prime Broad and Anderson(who are some of the deadliest bowlers in such conditions in the 21st century atleast, and brilliant WPM still.

So we ignore all the times he was hammered relentlessly in those countries? It's not right just to pick highlights only.

This is just special pleading for Steyn. Especially if you compare to the pitches IK played on at home.

Steyn was good in Aus and okay in England.

 

[subshakerz]

29.9 - Good
30.1 - Middling

No. Imran averaged 28 in India but I call it middling as well.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Very little between these three bowlers anyways and all points being said have been repeated in the past few threads

No more comparison ideas. Time for me to retire.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

So we ignore all the times he was hammered relentlessly in those countries?

This is just special pleading for Steyn. Especially if you compare to the pitches IK played on at home.

Steyn was good in Aus and okay in England.

He was only hammered relentlessly in Aus in one test(Adelaide 2012). And Steyn performed well on flat SC wickets vs the greatest batting lineups for those wickets(Sachin, Sehwag, Laxman etc). So don’t think would have struggled on flat Pak wickets

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

And Imran and Steyn have the same WPM(5) in Aus, and average in the roundabouts do 27/28, only difference being Steyn bowled on much flatter wickets there. And even Imran was hammered in Aus(first test in 76 and second test in 79). Compared to his contemporaries, Steyn was the best in Aus. And Steyn performed much better than Broad and Anderson in Eng, in the same matches, with a very good WPM. Far from middling. However as I said, the bowlers are very close. So I understand why you may pick Imran ahead

 

[subshakerz]

He was only hammered relentlessly in Aus in one test(Adelaide 2012). And Steyn performed well on flat SC wickets vs the greatest batting lineups for those wickets(Sachin, Sehwag, Laxman etc). So don’t think would have struggled on flat Pak wickets

He was hammered in the first two tests in 2012. He was hammered in the first test 2008 in England and in Headingley by KP in 2012. By hammered meaning leaking runs without seeming a threat.

That was Steyn's MO. He was hit or miss. There are legitimate reasons to excuse certain performances but you give Steyn a major pass when in sum, IK played on more flat wickets his entire career.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Forget about Steyn, Imran is not even better than Bumrah

 

[subshakerz]

And Imran and Steyn have the same WPM(5) in Aus, and average in the roundabouts do 27/28, only difference being Steyn bowled on much flatter wickets there. And even Imran was hammered in Aus(first test in 76 and second test in 79). Compared to his contemporaries, Steyn was the best in Aus. And Steyn performed much better than Broad and Anderson in Eng, in the same matches, with a very good WPM. Far from middling. However as I said, the bowlers are very close. So I understand why you may pick Imran ahead

Why doesn't this 'extra points for flatter wicket argument' count for IK at home while Steyn was served the best home pace wickets ever?

I don't see Broad and Anderson failing against a stronger lineup at home a good argument to make Steyn in England seem better than he was.

I don't mind having a standard but apply it consistently.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

He was hammered in the first two tests in 2012. He was hammered in the first test 2008 in England and in Headingley by KP in 2012. By hammered meaning leaking runs without seeming a threat.

That was Steyn's MO. He was hit or miss. There are legitimate reasons to excuse certain performances but you give Steyn a major pass when in sum, IK played on more flat wickets his entire career.

The way I see you take his records with the era. So Steyn was fantastic in Aus(by virtue of WPM, as well, and his SR). And in Eng, he played against their best lineup in decades on flat wickets, so performing better than two of the bowlers most attuned to those conditions means you are good there.

 

[HouHsiaoHsien]

Why doesn't this 'extra points for flatter wicket argument' count for IK at home while Steyn was served the best home pace wickets ever?

I don't see Broad and Anderson failing against a a stronger lineup at home a good argument to make Steyn in England seem better than he was.

I don't mind having a standard but apply it consistently.

I don’t compare the home record of a player with the away record of another. For example, I won’t compare Steyn and Bumrah in SA. You are better versed to perform in your home conditions than a visiting pacer. And Steyn was bowling at a formidable Eng lineup. And Broad and Anderson averaged 20 more than him.