Allrounder Statistical Rating

[aussie tragic]

Still amazes me that Kapil Dev is so low, considering how highly he was rated.

Well he is rated 14th best in the history of the game

Kapil Dev was always considered a great player, however he was nearly always rated below the other greats of his era (i.e. Imran, Botham & Hadlee) and it could be argued he played on too long past his prime (thus weakening his overall record).

Also, if you compare his record against the "Average" Great allrounder I mentioned in the post above, I think it becomes clear why comes out lower statistically:

Batting: All-time Top-16: Ave 35.13, RPI 31.7; Dev Ave 31.05, RPI 28.5

Bowling: All-time Top-16: 27.74, SR 66.6, 3.4 W/M; Dev 29.64, SR 63.9, 3.3 W/M

Best ICC Rank: All-time Top 16: 490; Dev 432

So the only thing Dev has above the all-time average is a slightly better SR, while he is behind on everything else (I hope that clears it up )

 

[Perm]

I'm not doubting the statistics and I probably should've worded my previous post a bit better, but Kapil Dev was always talked about as one of the 4 great all rounders alongisde Botham, Hadlee and Imran. I know he wasn't rated as highly as them by the people that watched him play but still very respected and I was slightly suprised that his statistics didn't reflect that.

 

[silentstriker]

I'm not doubting the statistics and I probably should've worded my previous post a bit better, but Kapil Dev was always talked about as one of the 4 great all rounders alongisde Botham, Hadlee and Imran. I know he wasn't rated as highly as them by the people that watched him play but still very respected and I was slightly suprised that his statistics didn't reflect that.

Well, I don't believe that Flintoff is already a better all rounder than Dev. In any case, Sobers statistics don't reflect his bowling ability either. It happens.

 

[silentstriker]

My batting ranking for example does Viv Richards injustice (and several others) and my spin bowling one probably does Bedi and Qadir injustice. :shrug: Statistics, you can live and die by them.

 

[aussie tragic]

Kapil Dev was always talked about as one of the 4 great all rounders alongisde Botham, Hadlee and Imran. I know he wasn't rated as highly as them by the people that watched him play but still very respected and I was slightly suprised that his statistics didn't reflect that.

I just tried to find a peak for Kapil, however it was interesting to note that he never really had one (i.e. he was consistant throughout). The best I could do was using his 100 Test stats (4142 runs @ 31.37 & 354 wkts @ 28.87) whereby he got a rating of 93.8, which is still 14th behind Noble

Could Kapil Dev have been the most consistant allrounder ever to play the game (i.e. Sobers, Botham, Imran all had major drop-offs in one aspect of the game during their careers)

 

[aussie tragic]

Well, I don't believe that Flintoff is already a better all rounder than Dev. In any case, Sobers statistics don't reflect his bowling ability either. It happens.

Actually, Flintoff's higher ranking is primarily due to his much higher Best ICC rank of 501. I don't really have a problem with this as everyone knows that Flintoff's early test figures were crap which is what brings his overall rating down.

First Half of Career: 32 tests, 1293 runs @ 25.86, 62 wkts @ 41.24, SR 85.9
Second Half of Career: 32 tests, 1890 runs @ 39.37, 131 wkts @ 26.76, SR 52.1

Btw, If Flintoff is just rated on the last half of his career, he gets a 109.6 which would place him 4th just behind Imran and Miller

 

[chaminda_00]

Nice to see Faulker so high up, quality all rounder.

 

[aussie tragic]

That'd be thanks to oz_fan who brought him to my attention

 

[chaminda_00]

I would have brought him to your attention TBH, one of my favorite players.

 

[silentstriker]

Actually, Flintoff's higher ranking is primarily due to his much higher Best ICC rank of 501. I don't really have a problem with this as everyone knows that Flintoff's early test figures were crap which is what brings his overall rating down.

First Half of Career: 32 tests, 1293 runs @ 25.86, 62 wkts @ 41.24, SR 85.9
Second Half of Career: 32 tests, 1890 runs @ 39.37, 131 wkts @ 26.76, SR 52.1

Btw, If Flintoff is just rated on the last half of his career, he gets a 109.6 which would place him 4th just behind Imran and Miller

I know why he was rated as higher, I just don't believe he is higher as an all rounder yet.

 

[chaminda_00]

IMO if you took a select period say 30 odd Test out of anyone career, especially with all rounders. You could get them into the top 5. Most all rounders throughout the history of Test Cricket have a select period during their career where they are at peak fitness and perform at their best in both forms.

 

[aussie tragic]

IMO if you took a select period say 30 odd Test out of anyone career, especially with all rounders. You could get them into the top 5. Most all rounders throughout the history of Test Cricket have a select period during their career where they are at peak fitness and perform at their best in both forms.

Except Kapil Dev who I pointed out in a post above that he amazingly averaged pretty much the same with bat and ball over his entire career (i.e no great periods, no bad spots or decline in one area like other allrounders)

Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, I don't think it is that easy to find a 30-test purple patch that would get an another allrounder into the top 5 (considering Sobers, Miller, Imran, Faulkner and Botham are already in top 5).

So we know Flintoff does, while Dev doesn't, so who else do you think could get into the top-5 on purple patch?

 

[nightprowler10]

Noble?

EDIT: Nevermind, it'd be hard to find a 30 match peak out of a 42 test career.

 

[aussie tragic]

Noble?

EDIT: Nevermind, it'd be hard to find a 30 match peak out of a 42 test career.

If you just consider Noble's first 30 tests (where he had the best form), he is rated at 98.3, which would be 10th

The obvious one would be Hadlee (since he's already 6th) and his last 30 tests were pretty impressive (why'd he retire):

Hadlee: Last 30 Tests, 1068 runs @ 32.36; 169 wkts @ 19.75, SR 46.3 - Score 113.1, which would be 2nd

Greig: First 30 tests, 1948 runs @ 44.27; 80 wkts @ 30.35, SR 69.1 - Score 107.3, which would still only be 6th

 

[oz_fan]

aussie tragic, where would Shaun Pollock rate if you took his allround peak (when he was captain)?

 

[nightprowler10]

Why was he stripped of his captaincy when he was on a 5 test winning streak? Did it have to do with the WC?

 

[oz_fan]

Why was he stripped of his captaincy when he was on a 5 test winning streak? Did it have to do with the WC?

Yeah he copped most of the blame for the draw with SL where SA got the Duckworth-Lewis total wrong. They ended up drawing the match but needed 1 run to win and make it into the super sixes.

 

[nightprowler10]

Yeah he copped most of the blame for the draw with SL where SA got the Duckworth-Lewis total wrong. They ended up drawing the match but needed 1 run to win and make it into the super sixes.

I remember hearing that. Still harsh IMO.

 

[The Sean]

Sobers: 93 tests, 8032 runs @ 57.78; 235 wkts @ 34.03, SR 91.9
Kallis: 102 tests, 8033 runs @ 55.78; 200 wkts @ 31.71, SR 67.9

Right there is as good an argument as any against basing opinions on pure numbers...

 

[aussie tragic]

aussie tragic, where would Shaun Pollock rate if you took his (when he was captain)?

Sorry, I'm late. Pollock scores 110.7 for his 26 tests as captain (2nd, but only just better than Miller and Imran's all-time rating)