All-Time World XIs: Discussion Thread

[OverratedSanity]

If Headley and Pollock and Grace are allowed, what's the issue with Ranji exactly

Headley and Pollock had insanely dominant records even in their smaller sample which ranji does not. I don't personally agree with the Grace selection since his greatness was much more in fc cricket.

Why don't you actually make an argument for ranji over miandad instead of deflecting?

 

[Thala_0710]

Headley and Pollock had insanely dominant records even in their smaller sample which ranji does not. I don't personally agree with the Grace selection since his greatness was much more in fc cricket.

Why don't you actually make an argument for ranji over miandad instead of deflecting?

How does Ranji not have an insanely dominant record? His FC avg of 56 and test avg of 45 is ridiculous for his era.... He has an argument to be even further ahead of his peers than Headley and Pollock were

 

[Coronis]

How does Ranji not have an insanely dominant record? His FC avg of 56 and test avg of 45 is ridiculous for his era.... He has an argument to be even further ahead of his peers than Headley and Pollock were

He wasn’t ahead in tests as much as you’d think.

Of players who played in 10+ of his matches

Ranji 15 matches 989 @ 44.95 2 tons 6 fifties
Hayward 11 matches 762 @ 44.82 2 tons 3 fifties
Jackson 10 matches 612 @ 43.71 2 tons 3 fifties
Hill 13 matches 853 @ 42.65 2 tons 6 fifties
Darling 15 matches 950 @ 39.58 3 tons 2 fifties
MacLaren 14 matches 785 @ 37.38 2 tons 3 fifties

 

[capt_Luffy]

He wasn’t ahead in tests as much as you’d think.

Of players who played in 10+ of his matches

Ranji 15 matches 989 @ 44.95 2 tons 6 fifties
Hayward 11 matches 762 @ 44.82 2 tons 3 fifties
Jackson 10 matches 612 @ 43.71 2 tons 3 fifties
Hill 13 matches 853 @ 42.65 2 tons 6 fifties
Darling 15 matches 950 @ 39.58 3 tons 2 fifties
MacLaren 14 matches 785 @ 37.38 2 tons 3 fifties

He was ahead that much in FC though. 56 for that era is totally nuts

 

[kingkallis]

I can't have someone with fifteen tests over a modern ATG who has a much more distinguished career, averaged much higher and faced superior bowlers.

I can't think of one argument for ranji over miandad, it's ridiculous.

@capt_Luffy thats exactly what I mentioned in our convo.

 

[ataraxia]

Frankly for many people it's a vibes-based vote (he wouldn't be selected if he were a dour South African of that time) but Ranji was definitely a long way further ahead of his era than Miandad was of his.

 

[Thala_0710]

He was ahead that much in FC though. 56 for that era is totally nuts

Yeah, 15 tests against Aus with 45 avg is very good... 56 FC is just next level... Enough evidence of his high quality imo

 

[kingkallis]

Yeah, 15 tests against Aus with 45 avg is very good... 56 FC is just next level... Enough evidence of his high quality imo

So what do you think about Duleepsinhji?

 

[Thala_0710]

So what do you think about Duleepsinhji?

He was good as well... Not really at the same level though... His runs came in a much flatter era

 

[Johan]

Viv was biased in favour of bowlers with a double L in their names and resented Hadlee for having practically stolen his last name.

It's not Richard Hadlee who should be questioned here, it's Viv Richards. He barely averaged (batting) 50 in Test cricket (50.23) and needed 20 runs in his last innings to prevent his average from dipping under 50. He averaged just 42.85 over his last 10 years 4 months (his last 78 Test matches, from #44 to #121; by comparison, Hadlee averaged (bowling) 20.11 over his last 12 years 5 months (20.92 against top-tier opposition)). Richards was significantly outscored, out-averaged and out-centuried by three of his own teammates in all-important shared Test wins with them. He managed just two POTS awards spanning a year cf. eight apiece spanning 7 1/2 and 9 1/2 years for Imran and Hadlee respectively. And he scored just 24 centuries in 121 Tests which is a lower rate than non-ATG Crowe's 17 in 77 Tests. IMO, by objective measures, his Test record falls well short of that required for a top-tier ATG, and is certainly inferior to Hadlee's (here and here), and no amount of peer review to the contrary is going to change that. I'm sure it's possible by cherry-picking to lift up Richards and pull down Hadlee but looking at their overall records, it's clear that Hadlee is a level above Richards in Test cricket.

Oh my Lord

The worst thing to ever happen to Viv Richards was having Kyear2 and Subshakerz as his biggest defenders

 

[Johan]

They also shouldn't count because the poster in question is irredeemably annoying and flip flops on every opinion he's got based on what's going to get him the most attention

Aw, come on brother, Luffy never made a rule about discounting votes from Annoying Insufferable Attention seekers, I mean...how else would he count the votes from the likes of you?

 

[Coronis]

Wonder how many draft posts someone saved up over the past week

 

[Johan]

Wonder how many draft posts someone saved up over the past week

have one draft post, it's very long.

 

[Paranoid Kendroid]

it's very long

 

[trundler]

He wasn’t ahead in tests as much as you’d think.

Of players who played in 10+ of his matches

Ranji 15 matches 989 @ 44.95 2 tons 6 fifties
Hayward 11 matches 762 @ 44.82 2 tons 3 fifties
Jackson 10 matches 612 @ 43.71 2 tons 3 fifties
Hill 13 matches 853 @ 42.65 2 tons 6 fifties
Darling 15 matches 950 @ 39.58 3 tons 2 fifties
MacLaren 14 matches 785 @ 37.38 2 tons 3 fifties

He also had an incredibly lopsided career. He had about 2 good series and he's being voted ahead of a guy who was the best in the world for a much longer period.

 

[trundler]

Frankly for many people it's a vibes-based vote (he wouldn't be selected if he were a dour South African of that time) but Ranji was definitely a long way further ahead of his era than Miandad was of his.

Not in tests.

 

[Thala_0710]

He also had an incredibly lopsided career. He had about 2 good series and he's being voted ahead of a guy who was the best in the world for a much longer period.

He also avged 56 in FC cricket at a time 35+ was very good

 

[trundler]

He also avged 56 in FC cricket at a time 35+ was very good

We're not picking all time FC XIs. Ranji had Kambli's test career. You've voted Kambli over one of 3 men to average 50+ in the 80s.

 

[Thala_0710]

We're not picking all time FC XIs.

We're picking all time World XIs.... Nowhere is it specified that only tests are being counted... It's the longer format in general...
Otherwise Barry, Grace, Headley, Pollock etc wouldn't be making it either

 

[Johan]

If Nourse and especially Barry are eligible than nothing is stopping Ranji really.