All-Time World XIs: Discussion Thread

[centurymaker]

So who started what?

I was wrong. You might be in your 20s but behave like you are in your teens.

 

[Johan]

You are THE clown of CW.

Look in a mirror, you're the guy

Feeling the need to respond to everything and everyone.

"P-people are responding to my nonsense online!? Waaaaah! I, I BETTER, I BETTER CRY! WAAH" gosh you're pathetic, grow up.

Fighting with every single person who disagrees.

"P-People are debating me on a debating platform!? WAAAAAAHH!" Again, you're pathetic, log off.

You need to grow up.

Take your own advice and grow a thick skin will you?

You live in a bubble on CW.

Do not.

Reality is outside of CW.

Do us a favour and leave CW then, the average IQ of the site would skyrocket.

You don't know a single cricketer in person yet you make bold claims and opinions about every single thing to do with cricket.

Knowing a Cricketer does not make your opinion more valid, the way I've humiliated you on every single conversation does

LBW law changes? none of the bats were effected and had similar or higher scoring, the rate of LBWs remained the same on the international stages

Bouncer barrages? I posted a video of someone who actually played cricket confirming there was less short pitched spam in the 70s and 80s than in the 50s and 60s.

Pundits? I confirmed to you how Hobbs made top 5 Wisden Cricketers of all time, and how modern players and pundits only pick those who they saw play, nobody gives a **** about Lillee or Viv anymore.

You lost every single exchange, now go and think why.

 

[Johan]

This.

So who started what?

I was wrong. You might be in your 20s but behave like you are in your teens.

That's an insult to your online persona because you decided to react and run rather than engage in a good faith argument.

You went personal, so I went personal, there's a difference but I do not expect you to understand the nuance.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Like do you legit not notice that players like Viv also brings an extra skill set to the team, one that's just as valuable? And more importantly, with less drop off in primary?



Well they're both getting in based primarily on FC, seems fair.

All good fielders to varying levels.

 

[Thala_0710]

Six? 4 man attack and Miller, who else?

In any event, there aren't 3 better options at 2nd in the cordon.


View attachment 48806

I don't even care about the bowling part, the less he does the better.

I meant in a purely theoretical scenario, say we get another ATG opener who could also bowl better than Sobers, not in the current reality ofc.
For the slips part, yes sobers would improve the cordon but we already have 3 ATG or close to that level of slip fielders in the XI. A very marginal impact would happen upon replacing them by Sobers.

 

[centurymaker]

That's an insult to your online persona because you decided to react and run rather than engage in a good faith argument.

You went personal, so I went personal, there's a difference but I do not expect you to understand the nuance.

I will take as long as I like to respond, if at all. I am clearly not as free as you are.

 

[Johan]

I will take as long as I like to respond, if at all. I am clearly not as free as you are.

>never responded

You can take as long as you want, the emotes irked me so I simply jabbed back over it, you're welcome to cry about it. Again, you simply are not well equipped to debate this matter with me.

 

[subshakerz]

With this attack, don't think that's negotiable.

I'm reminded of a Mark Nicholas article where he wrote of the best batsmen since Bradman, which he narrowed down to 3, Barry, Sachin and Garry.

View attachment 48806

I don't even care about the bowling part, the less he does the better.

Mark calls Barry his favorite. On Instagram he clarified:

'Ok, so I couldn’t narrow it down to 3. Thus it’s now a Top 5. My favourite #batsman has been #BarryRichards but, after only 4 tests, it’s hard to place him at the top of a list that goes:
#Sobers
#GraemePollock
@officiallyvivian
@SachinTendulkar
@brianlara'

 

[Prince EWS]

Pretty sure if someone came up with a side without Bradman and Sobers, the first response would be how can you make a side without the two best cricketers of all time.

I actually think Imran was better in real cricket than Sobers.

 

[Johan]

I actually think Imran was better in real cricket than Sobers.

 

[centurymaker]

>never responded

You can take as long as you want, the emotes irked me so I simply jabbed back over it, you're welcome to cry about it. Again, you simply are not well equipped to debate this matter with me.

You are sitting on a PC. I am on a phone. It takes a lot longer to type. You just assumed I wasn't responding. I have a reply to your long as post but I don't have the time to type.

 

[Johan]

You are sitting on a PC. I am on a phone. It takes a lot longer to type. You just assumed I wasn't responding. I have a reply to your long as post but I don't have the time to type.

Then you can respectfully agree to disagree and leave rather than reacting with the intent to irk me

 

[subshakerz]

I think the main difference we have is that McGrath for me is definitely the better new ball bowler (and vs the best bats) but is closer overall as bowlers. For me Marshall, Warne can hang there nearly as much as Hadlee/Wasim can (Imran ofc is much better) and this difference is exaggerated sometimes imo. Hadlee faced approx 34-35 balls per inns and Marshall 29, Warne 27-28 balls per inns (from the data I got from Cricinfo)
For example Hadlee's 100s are overplayed sometimes. One was in a dead draw vs a very poor SL team, and the other was when WI r

I see no evidence that McGrath is definitely a better new ball bowler. I prefer him since he has height but Hadlee had not just seam command but an outswinger. And don't bring in top order wickets since there is an obvious reason McGrath didn't have to clean up the late order.

I don't see a reason to let his batting quality go to waste and extent a long tail of Bumrah and McGrath.

 

[subshakerz]

I actually think Imran was better in real cricket than Sobers.

Yeah, no. If you think Imran was that high you can't justify him not being in an ATG XI

 

[Thala_0710]

I see no evidence that McGrath is definitely a better new ball bowler. I prefer him since he has height but Hadlee had not just seam command but an outswinger. And don't bring in top order wickets since there is an obvious reason McGrath didn't have to clean up the late order.

I don't see a reason to let his batting quality go to waste and extent a long tail.

Will, if he didn't have to clean up the tail, which makes his avg more impressive surely then?
In the exercise @ankitj and I did on avg_wkt_quality and discount factors, McGrath appropriately ranked quite high, even higher than Marshall away from home, simply because his avg_wkt_quality was quite good. So if that's not factored in the top order bowling, it needs to be factored in an overall comparison.
Secondly, McGrath's record vs the best bats of his era is also very strong, which in such a proppsed setting, is again very positive

 

[capt_Luffy]

Will, if he didn't have to clean up the tail, which makes his avg more impressive surely then?
In the exercise @ankitj and I did on avg_wkt_quality and discount factors, McGrath appropriately ranked quite high, even higher than Marshall away from home, simply because his avg_wkt_quality was quite good. So if that's not factored in the top order bowling, it needs to be factored in an overall comparison.
Secondly, McGrath's record vs the best bats of his era is also very strong, which in such a proppsed setting, is again very positive

Shan't WPI be a part of it as well? Like Hadlee also takes 5 wickets a game, while McGrath does around 4.5. Surely that means that he takes around the same number of top order wickets and a few more tailenders, which is just a net plus??

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Well that was an interesting last 8 pages to read

 

[Thala_0710]

Shan't WPI be a part of it as well? Like Hadlee also takes 5 wickets a game, while McGrath does around 4.5. Surely that means that he takes around the same number of top order wickets and a few more tailenders, which is just a net plus??

WPI is definitely part of it, Hadlee had to carry a weaker bowling attack in his career, which results in a higher WPI and a slightly higher avg as well. It's one of the reasons I have them close overall.

 

[kyear2]

Viv is a good captain is a bad candidate for captaining an ATG XI. Too much of a hothead and will struggle to handle so many egos. Warne or Bradman.

The candidates I considered in order.

Bradman. Players hated

Hutton. Too defensive, watching some of Hill's captaincy the past few weeks has turned me off of that in a major way. Also made some questionable selection decisions over his tenure.

Sobers. His biggest flaw as leader was not getting that his players weren't good as he was, that's not a problem here. Also liked the aggression. But he partied too hard and had a tendency to over bowl himself. Not a fan of captains who bowl.

Warne. Never actually captained

Viv. Was overly demanding, and a bit of a bully. But was somehow still adored, and most importantly, respected by his players.

The captain of this team is there to manage the rotations and command respect,.plus he was aggressive. Think Viv can do both.

Captaining this team isn't going to have the impact as it would for a lesser group.

 

[subshakerz]

The candidates I considered in order.

Bradman. Players hated

Hutton. Too defensive, watching some of Hill's captaincy the past few weeks has turned me off of that in a major way. Also made some questionable selection decisions over his tenure.

Sobers. His biggest flaw as leader was not getting that his players weren't good as he was, that's not a problem here. Also liked the aggression. But he partied too hard and had a tendency to over bowl himself. Not a fan of captains who bowl.

Warne. Never actually captained

Viv. Was overly demanding, and a bit of a bully. But was somehow still adored, and most importantly, respected by his players.

The captain of this team is there to manage the rotations and command respect,.plus he was aggressive. Think Viv can do both.

Captaining this team isn't going to have the impact as it would for a lesser group.

Bradman got results with an ATG side already.