1st Test (Leeds) - 20th June

[centurymaker]

No. India would worry far less about the target being chased and set attacking fields, unlike what panned out. More chances go to hand. Bumrah would get a full crack with the new ball again.

 

[GIMH]

I think it would roughly play out the same but perhaps with Root and Jamie having more runs on the board tbh.

I mean looking at how it finished, they had time and wickets. But the psychological difference of starting with the higher target is big.

I’d love to see us get set a low 400 target with 4 sessions

 

[Nas207]

As great as England's batting looks I'm really not sold on our attack. Woakes is over the hill. Carse looks a game a way from a career ending stress factor. Bashir is a tall inexperienced average finger spinner. Tongue flattered to deceive. Wood is getting on. Archer is never available. Robinson is unfit. Cook looked ordinary against Zimbabwe. Am I wrong to be concerned?

 

[Nintendo]

Ten years ago the thesis was that the IPL, on top of India's general love of white ball cricket, was going to lead to India being a consistently world class fielding team, and the emergence of blokes like Kohli, Jadeja etc who were genuine guns in the field (even if Kohli had his issues in the cordon) seemed to confirm that thesis, so it's really quite perplexing that they've regressed so much. Maybe it just says that Gambhir is a **** coach, as "make sure you're a good fielding team" is actually one aspect of the game where the head coach has a lot of direct control.

The main culprits are pant and Jaiswal re/ fielding, right?

 

[Xix2565]

Obviously bowlers should be picked on their bowling first and foremost but it's incredibly outdated to just ignore batting completely and every modern side who does it ends up regretting it deeply when they become a five-out/six-out, all-out side like India has over the past year.

They still managed a lead in the first innings despite the collapse. The point is that the lead wasn't big enough across the innings because of the 3rd and 4th seamers being expensive and the fielding being terrible. Would it be nice to get more Lord's Shami innings, sure but given the prospects atm it's not worth it when the bowling just isn't holding up. Fielding I can see improvements more easily, not the bowling.

 

[Spark]

They still managed a lead in the first innings despite the collapse. The point is that the lead wasn't big enough across the innings because of the 3rd and 4th seamers being expensive and the fielding being terrible. Would it be nice to get more Lord's Shami innings, sure but given the prospects atm it's not worth it when the bowling just isn't holding up. Fielding I can see improvements more easily, not the bowling.

I would posit that the lead not being big enough also has quite a lot to do with two huge collapses in both innings. It's a major, major problem that should be addressed with urgency.

 

[Spark]

Test fielding is very different than T20. Red ball, slip catching, having to focus all day long and get back up and do it again next day

Yeah I think this is what people are realising tbh. Lots of good athletes, but few really good catchers, especially in the context of red ball bucket were mental focus is required over a full day of play in the field.

 

[cnerd123]

Yeah I think this is what people are realising tbh. Lots of good athletes, but few really good catchers, especially in the context of red ball bucket were mental focus is required over a full day of play in the field.

Thought it was pretty obvious. Indian fans have been bemoaning the decline of our slip cordon ever since the selectors started prioritising IPL form for national selection.

Karun Nair is a good addition in that regard, seems a safe slipper. We need more seasoned First Class cricketers in this side and less IPL wonderkids.

 

[Xix2565]

I would posit that the lead not being big enough also has quite a lot to do with two huge collapses in both innings. It's a major, major problem that should be addressed with urgency.

It's not more important than the bowling though. They have to pick one or the other, because as it stands Shardul at 8 isn't working.

If Bumrah doesn't play next Test, I'd pick 2 of Kuldeep/Akash/Kambhoj for the bowling, for the 3 pacers + 2 spinners option or 4 +1 with Jadeja as the spinner. The collapse of the batting I'd argue has more to do with the new batters not necessarily hitting the ground running, so you could look to have perhaps Jurel come in for one of them and then go again, because he's done well so far in tough conditions as a new player. The lower order batting at this point is going to be a long term project for now.

 

[Daemon]

I would posit that the lead not being big enough also has quite a lot to do with two huge collapses in both innings. It's a major, major problem that should be addressed with urgency.

The lead wasn’t nearly as big a factor anyways.

If we made a few more runs i think the fear of bazball would have resulted in us setting them 450 in 75 overs or something and then there’s a risk of draw. Or who knows England may have chased it too.

With the catches taken we just straight up dominate imo.

 

[Kenneth Viljoen]

2 very poor bowling attacks (apart from Bumrah obviously) & India’s catching is diabolical

Carse is really good , he's averaging 5 wickets a test so far in his career and he has bowled on some really unhelpful decks ..A bit underrated

 

[Silver Silva]

Scoring 5 centuries and losing is crazy work , I think India will be feeling very insecure going into the 2nd test . They must surely be shellshocked

 

[GIMH]

Carse is really good , he's averaging 5 wickets a test so far in his career and he has bowled on some really unhelpful decks ..A bit underrated

Yeah he obviously gets a bit of tap, but he’s been taking wickets consistently.

 

[Burgey]

He's the nearest thing to Gilchrist I've seen in a long time

 

[FBU]

England had 4 pacers sharing the load, unlike India.

Overs bowled

Bumrah 44 overs
Woakes 43 overs
Siraj 41 overs
Carse 41 overs
Tongue 38 overs
Prasidh 35 overs
Stokes 35 overs
Thakur 16 overs


England had 4 pacers sharing the load, unlike India.

Bumrah 44 overs - 5 wickets at 28.00
Woakes 43 overs - 1 wicket at 148.00
Siraj 41 overs - 2 wickets at 86.50
Carse 41 overs - 4 wickets at 44.00
Tongue 38 overs - 7 wickets at 22.57
Prasidh 35 overs - 5 wickets at 44.00
Stokes 35 overs - 5 wickets at 22.60
Thakur 16 overs - 2 wickets at 44.50

 

[Molehill]

I’ve yet to hear of any over rate penalties despite so many overs being lost, are match refs becoming more lenient?

 

[centurymaker]

I feel it's not a totally objective process. And it seems some match refs don't bother/too lenient

 

[GIMH]

View attachment 48207

have you even watched him play

 

[Johan]

so did Paul Lennon already do some Paul Lennoning?

 

[Burgey]

have you even watched him play

why would I? He’s terrible