George Headley vs Ricky Ponting

[capt_Luffy]

I appreciate your commitment to cricket history etc but this is just misguided.

Ponting was the most dominant bat in world cricket for a lot longer than Headley was a top three bat

at no stage were Chanderpaul or Jayawardene or Weekes considered the best bat in the world. Ponting was for 7-8 years

Weekes most definitely was considered amongst the very best batsman in the World almost for the entirety of his Test career...... Throughout he was Top 3.

Headley was a top three bat in his era, but the catch is, Ponting won't be a top two with Hammond and Bradman going around either, especially with West Indies's schedule and zero batting backup. Ponting peaked really high but he also had tons of mid years.

 

[kyear2]

I can see why someone would put Headley over Ponting but the idea that it’s obvious is ludicrous

Agreed.

Think Ponting is just ridiculously underrated around these parts.

But I vividly remember the fear that he inspired when we went up against him.

 

[kyear2]

Weekes most definitely was considered amongst the very best batsman in the World almost for the entirety of his Test career...... Throughout he was Top 3.

Headley was a top three bat in his era, but the catch is, Ponting won't be a top two with Hammond and Bradman going around either, especially with West Indies's schedule and zero batting backup. Ponting peaked really high but he also had tons of mid years.

Good points.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I appreciate your commitment to cricket history etc but this is just misguided.

Ponting was the most dominant bat in world cricket for a lot longer than Headley was a top three bat

at no stage were Chanderpaul or Jayawardene or Weekes considered the best bat in the world. Ponting was for 7-8 years

Chanderpaul was from about 09-2011

 

[Coronis]

I appreciate your commitment to cricket history etc but this is just misguided.

Ponting was the most dominant bat in world cricket for a lot longer than Headley was a top three bat

at no stage were Chanderpaul or Jayawardene or Weekes considered the best bat in the world. Ponting was for 7-8 years

Jumping in to um actually here, Headley was considered a top 3 batsman for the majority of the 30’s.

 

[ataraxia]

Jumping in to um actually here, Headley was considered a top 3 batsman for the majority of the 30’s.

He was probably 4th through the 40s but only because three of the eight best batsmen of all time got in his way.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

He was probably 4th through the 40s but only because three of the eight best batsmen of all time got in his way.

Really? I'm a big Headley fan, but he is the 30s not 40s imo.
Did he play much in the 40s? 1st class etc.
2 tests in 1948 and a final one in 1954

Bradman, Hutton, Compton, Nourse, Morris, Donnelly, Hazare, Barnes, Washbook, Edrich etc. and then Harvey and the 3Ws debuted near the end.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Chanderpaul was from about 09-2011

lol

 

[Patience and Accuracy+Gut]

He was probably 4th through the 40s but only because three of the eight best batsmen of all time got in his way.

Neither Hutton or Sutcliffe are of the 3’s era. Both really only had couple good of years at the time of the 3’s peak. All Bradman, Headley, Hammond were in their absolute peak between 1928-1939. All 3 were well shadow of themselves in 40s. Bradman still scored lots of runs like always but even he was a shadow of himself. Headley and Hammond were well past their peak.

 

[Jane Austen]

Neither Hutton or Sutcliffe are of the 3’s era. Both really only had couple good of years at the time of the 3’s peak. All Bradman, Headley, Hammond were in their absolute peak between 1928-1939. All 3 were well shadow of themselves in 40s. Bradman still scored lots of runs like always but even he was a shadow of himself. Headley and Hammond were well past their peak.

There will be a variety of factors to be taken into account when debating the relative meritocracy of great batters.
Basic average is one.Longevity is another.1st-class as well as Test match career.The different eras which incorporate pitches,quality of opposition etc.The batters contribution relative to the rest of his teammates.And then there is the abstract charisma factor---Victor Trumper
Probably there are other aspects which have not occurred to me.
Then our subconscious prejudices will kick in to give more,or all,emphasis on that factor(s) which shows our preferred batter in the best possible light.
An example----who is the greater batter,Ken Barrington or Geoffrey Boycott?
The Barrington fan shouts--look at their respective Test match averages.
The Boycott cheerleader screams---consider their first-class careers.

 

[ma1978]

All of this fair, and I am hugely supportive of representing historical greats in their correct light but the way some people do it by denigrating the modern greats strikes me as trying to hard

I have no issue with rating Headley above Ponting (if you haven’t read the “Black Bradman” chapter in Beyond a Boundary. I suggest you do) but the idea that’s it’s easy is what I find ludicrous

 

[capt_Luffy]

All of this fair, and I am hugely supportive of representing historical greats in their correct light but the way some people do it by denigrating the modern greats strikes me as trying to hard

I have no issue with rating Headley above Ponting (if you haven’t read the “Black Bradman” chapter in Beyond a Boundary. I suggest you do) but the idea that’s it’s easy is what I find ludicrous

If it makes you feel any better, modern bats like Smith and Lara would beat Ponting even worse, and would beat Headley too.

 

[ma1978]

If it makes you feel any better, modern bats like Smith and Lara would beat Ponting even worse, and would beat Headley too.

no clue man, no clue whatsoever

 

[DrWolverine]

Wilfred Rhodes played against both WG Grace and George Headley.

Grace played his first test match in 1880.
Headley played his last test match in 1954.
That’s a difference of 74 years.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Wilfred Rhodes played against both WG Grace and George Headley.

Grace played his first test match in 1880.
Headley played his last test match in 1954.
That’s a difference of 74 years.

If you count for FC (since Tests weren't there when Grace began), the date gets pushed back to 1865

 

[Coronis]

If you count for FC (since Tests weren't there when Grace began), the date gets pushed back to 1865

If we’re looking at FC you have Rhodes playing with both Grace and CK Nayudu who played his last first class match in 1963. I’m unsure how few players you could use to get to modern day.

 

[capt_Luffy]

If we’re looking at FC you have Rhodes playing with both Grace and CK Nayudu who played his last first class match in 1963. I’m unsure how few players you could use to get to modern day.

Wonder if there's any which is a century long. Grace-Rhodes-Nayudu comes awfully close at 98 years.

Also like damn, there's only 8 years between Grace's retirement and Nayudu's debut!!!!

 

[Thala_0710]

Wonder if there's any which is a century long. Grace-Rhodes-Nayudu comes awfully close at 98 years.

Also like damn, there's only 8 years between Grace's retirement and Nayudu's debut!!!!

Shaw-Hirst-Nayudu takes it to 99 (1864-1963)

 

[capt_Luffy]

Shaw-Hirst-Nayudu takes it to 99 (1864-1963)

Awfully close!!

 

[Coronis]

Shaw-Hirst-Nayudu takes it to 99 (1864-1963)

Eh I’m always iffy with the early definition of first class tbh.