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All-Time World XIs: Discussion Thread

Johan

Hall of Fame Member
Both Warne and Murali are going to get owned for at least half the game until it's 3rd or 4th innings or a day 1 turner.
Averages in first two innings

Warne – 28.00
Murali – 26.73
O'Reilly – 23.83

should be noted pitch degrades and becomes receptive to spin bowling much, much earlier than Australia. Overall, I reckon O'Reilly is definitely the Greatest spinner on flat pitches, Warne and Murali win because War killed Tiger's career and longevity
 

Randomfan

U19 Vice-Captain
Jeez. This thread has gone through many stages already. Discussion of the players being picked, absolute utter trash, discussion of the players being picked, pressuring others who to vote for in the future to suit one person’s agenda, who knows what will come next.

Last few pages of discussion would’ve been if L&L’s ranking threads had been filled with copypastas from comparison threads during each vote.
It makes polling less meaningful.
 

Thala_0710

International Captain
O’Reilly played 27 Tests in 7 years against 2 teams and is recognised as arguably the best spinner

Ken Barrington played 80 Tests across 9 years against 6 teams in diverse conditions and emerged with an extraordinary record but is still ignored.

@subshakerz
@Coronis

Is there any specific reason apart from his style being boring and he did not have a great peer reputation back when he played?
Barrington only played 9 years because he wasn't good enough to get into the side before that. His FC record is much worse than his international record, suggesting that either he played intl cricket only at his peak, or got significantly flatter pitches.
O'Reilly on the other hand had his career cut short due to WW2, a thing basically out of his hand. He dominated FC cricket even more than intl cricket and he did so on arguably the flattest pitches ever.
 

Johan

Hall of Fame Member
Barrington is not rated that highly because he never made a great hundred in England against the three true enemies of England in Australia, South Africa and the West Indies. His away serieses while great came in weird flat serieses and never really amounted to victories. That is literally it.
 

DrWolverine

International Captain
Barrington only played 9 years because he wasn't good enough to get into the side before that. His FC record is much worse than his international record, suggesting that either he played intl cricket only at his peak, or got significantly flatter pitches.
O'Reilly on the other hand had his career cut short due to WW2, a thing basically out of his hand. He dominated FC cricket even more than intl cricket and he did so on arguably the flattest pitches ever.
Barrington retired due to him getting a heart attack.

Isn’t having a better international record than first class record a good thing?
 

Thala_0710

International Captain
Barrington is not rated that highly because he never made a great hundred in England against the three true enemies of England in Australia, South Africa and the West Indies. His away serieses while great came in weird flat serieses and never really amounted to victories. That is literally it.
That's part of the reason. Another part of the reason is his boring and defensive batting style. Another his him only having a 9 yr career, because he wasn't good enough to get into the side before that, + his FC record being significantly worse than his test record.
 

DrWolverine

International Captain
Both Warne and Murali are going to get owned for at least half the game until it's 3rd or 4th innings or a day 1 turner.
That’s the issue with spinners.

No matter how good a spinner is, he isn’t going to be useful in the first 2 days.

A great fast bowler is much more likely to take wickets on a dead pitch than a great spinner.
 

Thala_0710

International Captain
Isn’t having a better international record than first class record a good thing?
If he had a very long test career, then you could say so. But when the FC career is that long and has such a bigger sample size, + him playing on quite flat surfaces during his career... Both combined with the fact suggest Barrington's numbers look better than his actual level over the course of his career
 

Johan

Hall of Fame Member
A very funny thing I noticed recently. In the 20th century, from 1 January 1900 to 31 December 1999.

Compton's retirement series in South Africa is the lowest scoring series in South Africa, in that entire century, The batting average in that series is quite literally 19.69, the second lowest scoring is 21.44 in 1905. You have to go to Heorge Lohmann era to find lower scoring series in South Africa, and that was largely because of poor batting units. Even pre-war matting wicket serieses were higher scoring than the 1957 England in South Africa series.

Barrington's series in South Africa is the exact opposite, It's the second highest scoring series in South Africa, in the entire century, infact only one series is above it with 44.86 batting average, the 1938 South Africa series where England almost chased down 700+, the batting average for this series was 42.98, the third highest scoring series bin South Africa for the first 125 years of Cricket was at 34.13, showing just how much of an outlier those two tours were compared to conventional South African wickets.

Basically, Compton's final tour came in one of the lowest scoring serieses in history and Barrington's saffer tour came in one of the highest scoring, yet Barrington fans would pretend it's the same thing because the country is calked South Africa.
 

OverratedSanity

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They did similarly in India, Murali just had much better turning pitches than Warne at home.
Australia's attack was demolishing a very poor Indian batting lineup in the 1999 series and Warne still averaged 40+. The pitches shouldn't even have mattered.

And while his record in India wasn't great either, I'd give Murali the edge even there, because :

1) Unlike Warne, Murali had the misfortune of not touring India much in his peak period from 1998-2008 ish.
2) His 7fer in Delhi in the 2005 series is one of the ATG spells of bowling in India. Warne never managed anything of this caliber on any of his tours.
 

honestbharani

Whatever it takes!!!
Australia's attack was demolishing a very poor Indian batting lineup in the 1999 series and Warne still averaged 40+. The pitches shouldn't even have mattered.

And while his record in India wasn't great either, I'd give Murali the edge even there, because :

1) Unlike Warne, Murali had the misfortune of not touring India much in his peak period from 1998-2008 ish.
2) His 7fer in Delhi in the 2005 series is one of the ATG spells of bowling in India. Warne never managed anything of this caliber on any of his tours.
I remember the only 5fer he did get in 2004 was in Chennai and he was basically belted by every one of our batters, even Kaif, lol. He bowled good balls to get the wickets but he was really not a threat there. McGrath and Gillespie definitely were far more of a threat. He did get his 600th wicket or maybe a record breaking wicket at that time there, and I remember the huge standing ovation he got. He was wonderfully charming to the crowds in India but he was never really a threat against us. Murali pretty much always was. That is the difference, for me.
 

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