*Official* Australia Tour of West Indies 2025

[Starfighter]

So how much of our batting atrociousness can be attributed to the ball and pitches given everyone's batting sucks when they come here?

Looking at batting averages in WI:

Since 2017: WI 23.01, visitors 24.87
2010-2016: WI 27.00, visitors 30.16
2000s: WI 30.85, visitors 33.74
1990s: WI 29.62, visitors 25.16
1980s: WI 37.94, visitors 23.37
1970s: WI 35.10, visitors 33.80
1960s: WI 35.34, visitors 30.84
1950s: WI 39.05, visitors 37.13

I've held the belief for sometime that overall best cricket (of course you need variety) is produced by good balls - by which I mean ones which move, like the late 2010s Dukes - on good pitches - ones that have even bounce, good pace and some, but not a lot of seam movement.

Currently the WI Dukes ball, which has more lacquer and wears slower than the English version, exaggerates the poor quality of the pitches. I do think some of the lower average is simply from both teams often being crap, but even then it's a stark difference.

There's actually a parallel here in Australia, where belated efforts to improve the Kookaburra ball arrived at the same time as what on average have been the greenest pitches ever prepared in this country. And it's made batting a lot more difficult both in the Shield and in tests. Being someone who likes swing bowling, I'd much rather see them improve the pitches, but that will take some learning.

I think the biggest issue is the apparent loss of knowledge on how to create the traditional pitches at Kingston and Bridgetown, as well as generally poor ones elsewhere. I once watched video of a 'mirror' pitch at Sabina Park around 2008-ish, but since then they've been bad surfaces. The recent test pitches have often been very grassy, when previously WI pitches were known for being bare.

I suspect WI's test season being shoved into June-August by the IPL doesn't help, the weather being less favourable. But a lot of the WI pitches I see, though grassy, are dry underneath, with the grass being the main thing holding it together. It brings to mind a late sixties Wisden article about poor English domestic pitches, that they could use more watering and rolling.

 

[Spark]

How tf is it an unfair advantage? They are not asking other teams to play any less pink ball games?

Australia is good at them, therefore unfair, I suppose.

 

[centurymaker]

seeing how Gambhir survived being whitewashed 0-3 by a mid NZ at home, It really seems like coaches are invulnerable these days.

That was Gambhir's first real test series. They weren't gonna fire him within a couple of months of hiring him. And as said above, BCCI doesn't care as deeply about tests. Their focus as always is on IPL and limited overs tournaments (where all the money is at). Gambhir's side won Champions Trophy so he's safe for time being.

But for England, they deeply care about the Ashes. Other series are sometimes treated like a warmup especially at home. The sole reason they brought in baz was to do well in Ashes. So if they lose badly in Australia like in the past, expect Rob Key and his friend Baz's position to be under serious threat after a long 'inquest on Ashes debacle'. And once England **** up in the subsequent T20 WC in Feb-Mar, expect Baz to resign himself.

 

[Johan]

That was Gambhir's first real test series. They weren't gonna fire him within a couple of months of hiring him. And as said above, BCCI doesn't care as deeply about tests. Their focus as always is on IPL and limited overs tournaments (where all the money is at). Gambhir's side won Champions Trophy so he's safe for time being.

But for England, they deeply care about the Ashes. Other series are sometimes treated like a warmup especially at home. The sole reason they brought in baz was to do well in Ashes. So if they lose badly in Australia, expect Rob Key and his friend Baz's position to be under serious threat after a long 'inquest on Ashes debacle'. And once England **** up in the subsequent T20 WC in Feb-Mar, expect Baz to resign himself.

Doubt it, the last three ventures of England in Australia have ended in disaster, the debacle of 2013-14 when Mitchell Johnson breathed fire, I don't even remember 2017 and the most frustrating series of all time in 2021-22, all ending in 5-0 or 4-0 with the Sydney draws. I can't see Baz being ditched over the Australian Ashes, if he's any competitive then that already means he'll keep the chair until the 2027 Ashes, if he loses that then it's curtains for him but not yet.

 

[Spark]

That was Gambhir's first real test series. They weren't gonna fire him within a couple of months of hiring him. And as said above, BCCI doesn't care as deeply about tests. Their focus as always is on IPL and limited overs tournaments (where all the money is at). Gambhir's side won Champions Trophy so he's safe for time being.

But for England, they deeply care about the Ashes. Other series are sometimes treated like a warmup especially at home. The sole reason they brought in baz was to do well in Ashes. So if they lose badly in Australia, expect Rob Key and his friend Baz's position to be under serious threat after a long 'inquest on Ashes debacle'. And once England **** up in the subsequent T20 WC in Feb-Mar, expect Baz to resign himself.

It really depends on the actual series itself. If the series is highly competitive but they lose narrowly then he can probably quite fairly point to the massive improvement that would represent over the last handful of efforts. If we see a repeat, however, then yeah I think much of the English viewing public will turn hard on the whole enterprise.

 

[Molehill]

Australia is good at them, therefore unfair, I suppose.

Good because they get the most practice (sure they'd be good anyway but they do play the most). England just has no need for pink ball here.

Has it actually increased attendances/TV ratings, because I'm not sure it's increased the quality of cricket.

 

[Spark]

Good because they get the most practice (sure they'd be good anyway but they do play the most). England just has no need for pink ball here.

Has it actually increased attendances/TV ratings, because I'm not sure it's increased the quality of cricket.

It's specifically done both in the case of Adelaide (and it's a major tourist drawcard for Adelaide these days, the kind the state government absolutely loves). As for the cricket, the balance isn't perfect but it's a huge improvement over the dead roads that predominated before. Those were mostly ghastly.

 

[centurymaker]

Doubt it, the last three ventures of England in Australia have ended in disaster, the debacle of 2013-14 when Mitchell Johnson breathed fire, I don't even remember 2017 and the most frustrating series of all time in 2021-22, all ending in 5-0 or 4-0 with the Sydney draws. I can't see Baz being ditched over the Australian Ashes, if he's any competitive then that already means he'll keep the chair until the 2027 Ashes, if he loses that then it's curtains for him but not yet.

Rob Key and baz's whole agenda has been to do well in Australia, thats why they are doing things like using the Kookaburra in county cricket, developing pacers who can bowl 90+ mph in tests. There will be a big fallout if their performances don't improve in Australia with bazball style of play. However if the tests are super competitive yet they lose 4-1, then they'll probably get until 2027 Ashes.

 

[cascade]

Small sample size but Lyon, Hazlewood and Starc all have significantly better averages in day tests in Adelaide than they do in D/N tests in Brisbane. Meanwhile the only English bowler who has done well in Adelaide over the past 10 years is Jimmy. So I think that's still the test English fans should be more worried about.

 

[govinda indian fan]

Doubt it, the last three ventures of England in Australia have ended in disaster, the debacle of 2013-14 when Mitchell Johnson breathed fire, I don't even remember 2017 and the most frustrating series of all time in 2021-22, all ending in 5-0 or 4-0 with the Sydney draws. I can't see Baz being ditched over the Australian Ashes, if he's any competitive then that already means he'll keep the chair until the 2027 Ashes, if he loses that then it's curtains for him but not yet.

All the façade of saving test cricket will go down the drain if eng don't win or draw ashes. Ashes is only thing english fans care and this is best chance for eng to win away ashes since 2010 with aussie batting being **** bar smith. I would be shell shocked if england don't win this year

 

[Johan]

All the façade of saving test cricket will go down the drain if eng don't win or draw ashes. Ashes is only thing english fans care and this is best chance for eng to win away ashes since 2010 with aussie batting being **** bar smith. I would be shell shocked if england don't win this year

..... We'd be lucky to win a match.

 

[govinda indian fan]

..... We'd be lucky to win a match.

Mate you have atg batting line up and two nasty fast bowlers (wood and archer) and most inspiring captain since imran khan

 

[Johan]

Mate you have atg batting line up and two nasty fast bowlers (wood and archer) and most inspiring captain since imran khan

Brother, we have Zak Crawley and Ollie Pope in the top three, making the top three unsustainably volatile. Our Greatest Batsman has been underwhelming in Australia, Stokes simply hasn't been in form, Wood and Archer break too easily and so forth. Too many issues, the goal should be to win a test and be competitive, considering West Indies and India achieved the prior and Pakistan the latter, it's a much more achievable goal.

 

[Spark]

Mate you have atg batting line up and two nasty fast bowlers (wood and archer) and most inspiring captain since imran khan

It's nowhere near an ATG batting lineup yet, be serious

 

[Thala_0710]

Brother, we have Zak Crawley and Ollie Pope in the top three, making the top three unsustainably volatile. Our Greatest Batsman has been underwhelming in Australia, Stokes simply hasn't been in form, Wood and Archer break too easily and so forth. Too many issues, the goal should be to win a test and be competitive, considering West Indies and India achieved the prior and Pakistan the latter, it's a much more achievable goal.

You also have the second coming of Viv and Gilchrist reborn in the team though

 

[Johan]

You also have the second coming of Viv and Gilchrist reborn in the team though

and they can casually put four top level pacers (one condition dependent) on green mambas with enhanced kookaburas...

 

[Molehill]

I fear it's more like a 2007 vibe, an all time great bowling line up heading into retirement looking for one last hurrah. Aussies will be shite once they go, but until then, almost impossible to beat at home even with that Top 7.

 

[Thala_0710]

and they can casually put four top level pacers (one condition dependent) on green mambas with enhanced kookaburas...

That batting bar Smith for the Aussies will look club level on green mambas too

 

[Johan]

That batting bar Smith for the Aussies will look club level on green mambas too

our bowling will make them look good.

 

[Johan]

I fear it's more like a 2007 vibe, an all time great bowling line up heading into retirement looking for one last hurrah. Aussies will be shite once they go, but until then, almost impossible to beat at home even with that Top 7.

don't think it can be that bad due to the batting gap between both Australian sides but Yeah I'm in 3-1 or 4-1 (depends on Sydney) win for Australia camp.