Jasprit Bumrah vs Dennis Lillee

[subshakerz]

Though it was because he lacked penetration.

Apparently only him. Not anyone else with a high SR.

 

[subshakerz]

Ambrose's record in australia is so insanely good in australia that that discussion is futile. He did well on every kind of deck australia served up.

That's not completely true. In 96 when his pace was gone he failed in the first two tests in Aus on flatter decks and only succeeded later in Perth and on a cracked Melbourne deck.

But I am not denying he was ATG in Aus. I am only denying that Lillee somehow unperformed at home against WI.

 

[Coronis]

Apparently only him. Not anyone else with a high SR.

I’d say a lack of penetration - however you define/perceive it - whilst not ideal, can be made up for somewhat by factors such as being able to bowl long spells, or being able to bowl very economically.

Ideally we’d want all 3 i.e Lohmann

 

[capt_Luffy]

Lillee averages 27 vs WI and had some spicy stuff to boot his record, while he played 1 game away. Great WPM but GTFO if you think that's ATG. And WSC wasn't Tests ffs. Where credit is due is his ability to bowl long ass overs, but 27 for a pacer isn't ATG, especially when he practically played all at Home.

 

[Johan]

That's just speculation since in the WSC in WI Lillee didn't average 30 plus.

And you constantly dismiss Lillee in tests against WI. 55 wickets in 11 tests @25 at a sub 50 SR against the best team ever is outstanding.

It's wierd you were trying to downplay McGrath for an objectively ordinary overall record against SA yet feel fit to critique this as if Lillee failed. At least be consistent.

28, But WSC was made for fast bowling as Packer was a huge fan of pace bowling and destructive batting, if they were slower and flatter like their natural wickets, it would not be the same.

Also, McGrath did very well against India who were at least SA level as a unit/batting unit.

 

[capt_Luffy]

28, But WSC was made for fast bowling as Packer was a huge fan of pace bowling and destructive batting, if they were slower and flatter like their natural wickets, it would not be the same.

Also, McGrath did very well against India who were at least SA level as a unit/batting unit.

Surely India with Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman and Ganguly was better than SA?

 

[subshakerz]

Surely India with Sehwag, Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman and Ganguly was better than SA?

Sehwag wasn't in most of the Indian sides McGrath faced. In fact I wouldnt consider the 90s Indian batting that strong.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Sehwag wasn't in most of the Indian sides McGrath faced. In fact I wouldnt consider the 90s Indian batting that strong.

McGrath played 90s India for one series, not a Great side but still a strong one; and a one off game Aus lost

 

[Johan]

Sehwag wasn't in most of the Indian sides McGrath faced. In fact I wouldnt consider the 90s Indian batting that strong.

stronger than the WI Imran bullied.

 

[subshakerz]

I’d say a lack of penetration - however you define/perceive it - whilst not ideal, can be made up for somewhat by factors such as being able to bowl long spells, or being able to bowl very economically.

Ideally we’d want all 3 i.e Lohmann

I disagree slightly. I don't think a great ER compensates for less overall wickets. I used to.

 

[subshakerz]

stronger than the WI Imran bullied.

Red herring.

 

[subshakerz]

Lillee averages 27 vs WI and had some spicy stuff to boot his record, while he played 1 game away. Great WPM but GTFO if you think that's ATG. And WSC wasn't Tests ffs. Where credit is due is his ability to bowl long ass overs, but 27 for a pacer isn't ATG, especially when he practically played all at Home.

Dude follow the conversation. It's 27 thanks to an injured test in WI. Otherwise it's 55 wicket in 11 tests @25 with a sub 50 SR.

I don't call that ATY but it's by no means a weak record like Johan is pretending against the best side at the time.

 

[subshakerz]

28, But WSC was made for fast bowling as Packer was a huge fan of pace bowling and destructive batting, if they were slower and flatter like their natural wickets, it would not be the same.

I would like to see those pitch reports for the WI series since three of the five tests were drawn.

Also, McGrath did very well against India who were at least SA level as a unit/batting unit.

You are sidestepping the point. You were loathe to accept that McGrath had that blemish in his record against SA yet are trying to portray an objectively better record as weak. Double standards.

 

[Johan]

You are sidestepping the point. You were loathe to accept that McGrath had that blemish in his record against SA yet are trying to portray an objectively better record as weak. Double standards.

He proved himself plenty against India and in SA, just one point of struggle was his own backyard against South Africa.

 

[subshakerz]

McGrath played 90s India for one series, not a Great side but still a strong one; and a one off game Aus lost

It's all irrelevant for me since I overall give McGrath credit against India as a strong lineup.

 

[subshakerz]

He proved himself plenty against India and in SA, just one point of struggle was his own backyard against South Africa.

Yes and it affected his overall record. And again you didn't accept that as weak but are portraying Lillee against WIs at home as weak.

 

[Johan]

Yes and it affected his overall record. And again you didn't accept that as weak but are portraying Lillee against WIs at home as weak.

It's not weak it's just ridiculously convineant he never had to go on any tough tours and his average even at home against them is noticeably higher than away.

 

[subshakerz]

It's not weak it's just ridiculously convineant he never had to go on any tough tours and his average even at home against them is noticeably higher than away.

No you are deflecting from your characterization of him at home against WI while you have all excuses for McGrath.

 

[Johan]

No you are deflecting from your characterization of him at home against WI while you have all excuses for McGrath.

Now you're just going on a tangent.

 

[subshakerz]

Now you're just going on a tangent.

I just want you to be consistent that's all. Anyways, we don't need to press further.