Jasprit Bumrah vs Dennis Lillee

[Thala_0710]

I split them in half, as the era change was abruptly in middle of 2010s, from flat ass start of the era, mid decade we gradually grew into the most bowling friendly era by the end of the decade.

It's actually more from 2017-18 onwards

 

[Randomfan]

For a minimum of 50 test wickets, of the top 13 guys with the best SR, 9 are current, 3 are pre ww1 (Lohmann, Ferris and Barnes) and 1 is Shane Bond. So yup, agree with the SR point

Intersting observation. But to add, most are HTB. As soon as you change it for away, list looks way different. Then if you change it to keep top 5-6 teams, it change more.

Aggregate numbers can hide many things so need to be seen in context otherwise Jadeja will be a better bowler than Warne. Home performances shouldn't be ignored but there is something to be said about doing well in all different conditions away.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Pacers Averages and SRs throughout the decades

1950s – 26.89, 72.0
1960s – 30.18, 71.5
1970s – 29.83, 67.1.
1980s – 29.82, 62.8.
1990s – 29.73, 63.0.
2000s – 33.22, 62.5
2010s – 32.50, 61.5
2010s – 28.58, 55.8
2020s – 28.45, 52.4

What this tells us!

Average – Massive inflation compared to first half of 2010s and 2000s, decent one with 1960s, minor inflation compared to 70s, 80s and 90s, like half a point or so~, meanwhile 50s still reigns supreme as the hell of batting.

Strike Rate – Huge, Huge change, 10-15 points change compared to even the so called bowling eras, far lower than even the 1950s.

I concur my point on SR doesn't stands that solid, but Rabada's WPM is pretty close to Lillee as well. And if anything, these stats shows that compared to the 70s, 80s and 90s, the shift in bowling averages is miniscule.

 

[Thala_0710]

Intersting observation. But to add, most are HTB. As soon as you change it for away, list looks way different. Then if you change it to keep top 5-6 teams, it change more.

Aggregate numbers can hide many things so need to be seen in context otherwise Jadeja will be a better bowler than Warne. Home performances shouldn't be ignored but there is something to be said about doing well in all different conditions away.

Even away from home, for min 25 wkts away,
Top 11 has 6 current, 3 pre ww1 and 2 guys in Bond and Schultz

 

[Johan]

It's actually more from 2018 onwards

2010: 34.12, 60.8.
2011: 31.12, 58.9.
2012: 34.29, 65.2.
2013: 30.53, 60.3.
2014: 33.20, 63.7
2015: 32.04, 60.1
2016: 32.02, 61.7
2017: 30.99, 59.7
2018: 25.39, 51.8
2019: 26.36, 50.7

seems like you're right.

 

[govinda indian fan]

Gus Atkinson is 35, Brydon Carse 45, Matt Henry 44 since 2021, lol Josh Tongue 47 and he's a shite bowler, Jansen 38. etc. Era is overplayed in term of averages, not strike rates, modern bowlers absolutely cannot be compared to older ones in Strike Rate

Older batsmen had solid defence and mostly played for draws if not for wins. Thats the reason imran has strike rate of 56 away

 

[Johan]

I concur my point on SR doesn't stands that solid, but Rabada's WPM is pretty close to Lillee as well. And if anything, these stats shows that compared to the 70s, 80s and 90s, the shift in bowling averages is miniscule.

Rabada is a weird case where his home wickets are so spicy they stand out even in a bowling era but I do like Rabada and think he's underrated in comparison to Cummins and even Bumrah sometimes so I'd allow this

 

[Thala_0710]

Older batsmen had solid defence and mostly played for draws if not for wins. Thats the reason imran has strike rate of 56 away

I think pitches + the white ball impact both have a part to play.

 

[Thala_0710]

Rabada is a weird case where his home wickets are so spicy they stand out even in a bowling era but I do like Rabada and think he's underrated in comparison to Cummins and even Bumrah sometimes so I'd allow this

I think by the time they retire, Rabada would be viewed as a better bowler than Cummins

 

[Johan]

Touring pacers in South Africa since 2018 average 27.12.

Touring pacers in Australia in the 1970s is 30.92.

But then again, 70s Australia definitely had stronger batting unit than modern South Africa so that is likely a bit inflated.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

I think by the time they retire, Rabada would be viewed as a better bowler than Cummins

Potentially top 15

 

[Randomfan]

Pacers Averages and SRs throughout the decades

1950s – 26.89, 72.0
1960s – 30.18, 71.5
1970s – 29.83, 67.1.
1980s – 29.82, 62.8.
1990s – 29.73, 63.0.
2000s – 33.22, 62.5
2010s – 32.50, 61.5
2010s – 28.58, 55.8
2020s – 28.45, 52.4

What this tells us!

Average – Massive inflation compared to first half of 2010s and 2000s, decent one with 1960s, minor inflation compared to 70s, 80s and 90s, like half a point or so~, meanwhile 50s still reigns supreme as the hell of batting.

Strike Rate – Huge, Huge change, 10-15 points change compared to even the so called bowling eras, far lower than even the 1950s.

So it seems, Avg have been hovering around 29 in the last 50-60 years except 2000s and early part of 2010s. Only McGrath and Steyn played in that period. All of us know this even without looking at this data when discussing Steyn and McGrath.

Talking about avg adjustment for other bowlers when comparing does not make much sense given how close they are hovering around 29. Half point here or there is not going to change much.

SR has surely dropped but avg is unchanged based on what you are sharing. It make sense because scoring is faster.

 

[Johan]

Funnily, touring pacers in West Indies in 70s averaged 35 and in Pakistan 52

In the 1960s, touring pacers in West Indies averaged 33 and 36 in Australia.

Lillee is really lucky he never had to frequently tour West Indies, might have ended with a John Snow average.

 

[Thala_0710]

Potentially top 15

Might even have a case for top 10 although that's quite tough

 

[govinda indian fan]

Funnily, touring pacers in West Indies in 70s averaged 35 and in Pakistan 52

In the 1960s, touring pacers in West Indies averaged 33 and 36 in Australia.

Lillee is really lucky he never had to frequently tour West Indies, might have ended with a John Snow average.

Wi must be due to their atg batsmen (sobers Llyod and viv) while pak because of flat roads and baised umpires

 

[Johan]

So it seems, Avg have been hovering around 29 in the last 50-60 years except 2000s and early part of 2010s. Only McGrath and Steyn played in that period. All of us know this even without looking at this data when discussing Steyn and McGrath.

Talking about avg adjustment for other bowlers when comparing does not make much sense given how close they are hovering around 29. Half point here or there is not going to change much.

SR has surely dropped but avg is unchanged based on what you are sharing. It make sense because scoring is faster.

Like I said, probably a point or a half of adjustment

 

[Randomfan]

Touring pacers in South Africa since 2018 average 27.12.

Touring pacers in Australia in the 1970s is 30.92.

But then again, 70s Australia definitely had stronger batting unit than modern South Africa so that is likely a bit inflated.

How did you get this data?

 

[Johan]

Wi must be due to their atg batsmen (sobers Llyod and viv) while pak because of flat roads and baised umpires

Pakistan had very strong batting, even away from home they were on par with Australia and England. Like I told Subs earlier, this is why I think Trueman was a better bowler than Lillee, Lillee averaged 27 and 25 at home against the two strongest batting lineups of his time while Trueman did 24 and 18 against the two strongest of his time (Australia and West Indies), and Trueman won games and series in the heart of the strongest batting unit while Lillee never played in West Indies and we all know what happened in Pakistan.

 

[Thala_0710]

How did you get this data?

It's available on statsguru

 

[Johan]

How did you get this data?

Statsguru

https://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=1;filter=advanced;groupby=host;home_or_away=2;orderby=wickets;spanmax2=16+Jul+2025;spanmin2=01+Jan+2018;spanval2=span;template=results;type=bowling