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Scyld Berry 30 greatest test fast bowlers

Swamp Witch Hattie

U19 12th Man
Scyld Berry's list is utter garbage and ranks #1 of the 30 worst lists of all time. It's obvious he has some sort of problem with Hadlee. Here's what he says about him:

Scyld Berry on Hadlee.JPG

Compare the above with what he says about the other 29 bowlers:


(this link is for those who don't have a Telegraph subscription; thanks @IcarianStyles)

For EVERY SINGLE ONE of the other 29 bowlers, he either says something about the balls they bowl (yorker, inswinger, speed, etc.) and/or mentions some important Test (or ODI) performance or performances of theirs. For Hadlee, he does NEITHER of these things which is just ridiculous as Hadlee was quite a versatile bowler with goodness knows how many significant Test performances, some of them legendary.

Also, examine the language he uses in connection with Hadlee:

"Arguably the most efficient of all fast-medium bowlers on a pitch which offered something."

"Not having a partner of anything like equal calibre was a hindrance and an advantage in that the biggest slice of pie was always going to be his."

Regarding the first comment (which was a backhanded compliment), did Hadlee occasionally struggle on dead pitches? Yes, but most if not all bowlers sometimes do. Hadlee was an excellent all-wickets bowler who could take wickets on any type of surface.

Regarding the second comment, yes, he mentions "hindrance" but the bulk of the sentence and specifically, the ending is taking away from the bowler. As a writer, Scyld Berry would know what sort of impression that would leave in the minds of the readers. Hadlee being a lone wolf pacer for NZ for something like FOURTEEN years while bowling at a very high level of quality is a great achievement which I doubt could have been duplicated by many (if any) of the other 29 bowlers on the list, and for Scyld Berry to try to downplay that with a clearly negative connotation is pretty low stuff. That there is some truth to the "pie aspect" of the second comment doesn't change the fact that it's nasty writing.

Both comments involve giving but then taking away at the ends of the sentences.

I also wonder whether this writer deliberately put Hadlee at 16th, i.e. one position below halfway, because he did the same thing back in 2017 with his list of the top 40 cricketers of the previous 40 years:

Scyld Berry's top 40.JPG

(thanks, @BazBall21!)

This 2017 list has Hadlee at 21, again, one position below halfway. Coincidence? IMO Hadlee fully deserves to be in the GOAT bowler conversation, based on his results at Test level.
 

OverratedSanity

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Not all of those XI's were just contemporary accounts from their era and I can present many XI's where Barry is either selected alongside or ahead of Sunny. And many of these XI's, as referenced by you and Luffy are absolute garbage.
It's amazing to me how you still can't see how hilariously biased you are on this. You will shout from the rooftops about every player that rates Richards higher or every XI that includes Richards, but somehow any player/XI that includes Gavaskar is either biased or "rubbish" or not contemporary or wasn't made between January 1969 and may 1975 hence it doesnt count etc.
 

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
When? Don't strawman.


So Simpson was selected in the side because of his slip fielding not his batting?
Yes. It's been often discussed here.

They were experiencing too many drops in the slips and he was brought in for the purpose.

This was raised to you multiple times.
 

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
Sorry but the gap between Gavaskar and Barry in the XIs selection is too vast. Pretty clear consensus is Gavaskar is a better opener.

Once again you cherrypick the consensus and ATG XIs you like but ignore the rest.

Massive cope from you.
That was clearly explained just a few posts ago, you just choose to believe what you want and ignore the remainder. And you're free to do that.
 

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
Ah so after droning on and on about the importance of slips, when push comes to shove, you ignore your own criteria for slips and you agree they should not be a selection criteria in the case of Tendulkar. Otherwise there is no reason for you to not have Hammond over Tendulkar. Hypocrite.
Are you serious?

This is the peak of trolling. I'm being consistent in that primary skills need to a the primary consideration in the selection of teams.

Barry was a first rate slip, the same way the Wasim is a good enough no. 8. Would it be great if he was as good as Barlow in the cordon or Wasim could bat as well as Imran, sure, but they're good enough. Barry especially was really good, butter than most of not all going around today.

It's about balance.

And lets get to the real reason you want me to switch, so you can then being the argument that I have one rule for lower order batting but then willing to break that same rule and reduce the batting for slip fielding.

It's all games and one-upsmanship for you. Find another partner.
 

kyear2

Hall of Fame Member
Just wanted to clarify, by "when both played" he means between 71-75, aka, Barry's half peak and Sunny's first 4 years of Tests.
Through our the 70's Barry was seen as better.

Though yes, the time he was seen as the best in the world was '70 to '76 when Viv took the crown.
 

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Yes. It's been often discussed here.

They were experiencing too many drops in the slips and he was brought in for the purpose.

This was raised to you multiple times.
For the sake of argument, let's accept this. It's still an anomaly compared to the vast numbers of cricketers selected for primary skills.
 

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
That was clearly explained just a few posts ago, you just choose to believe what you want and ignore the remainder. And you're free to do that.
No why are you addressing the gap in the ATG XI votes that Peterhrt posted? All of those arent current cricketers.
 

subshakerz

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
I'm being consistent in that primary skills need to a the primary consideration in the selection of teams.
Agreed we don't need to bring slips into it. Especially since you are willing to ignore an ATG slip like Hammond.
 
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DrWolverine

International Captain
1.​
Sir Donald Bradman
100​
2.​
Sir Garfield Sobers
90​
3.​
Sir Jack Hobbs
30​
4.​
S. K. Warne
27​
5.​
Sir Vivian Richards
25​
6.​
D. K. Lillee
19​
Sir Frank Worrell
19​
8.​
W. R. Hammond
18​
9.​
D. C. S. Compton
14​
10.​
Sir Richard Hadlee
13​
Imran Khan
13​
12.​
S. M. Gavaskar
12​
13.​
S. F. Barnes
11​
Sir Leonard Hutton
11​
15.​
W. J. O'Reilly
10​
16.​
I. T. Botham
9​
17.​
H. Larwood
6​
R. R. Lindwall
6​
S. R. Tendulkar
6​
20.​
R. Benaud
5​
G. A. Headley
5​
Kapil Dev
5​
23.​
R. G. Pollock
4​
W. Rhodes
4​
V. T. Trumper
4​
26.​
T. G. Evans
3​
M. D. Marshall
3​
Wasim Akram
3​
29.​
Sir Alec Bedser
2​
C. V. Grimmett
2​
F. S. Trueman
2​
F. E. Woolley
2​
33.​
C. E. L. Ambrose
1​
K. C. Bland
1​
A. R. Border
1​
B. J. T. Bosanquet
1​
B. S. Chandrasekhar
1​
I. M. Chappell
1​
Lord Constantine
1​
A. A. Donald
1​
A. P. Freeman
1​
L. R. Gibbs
1​
M. A. Holding
1​
C. H. Lloyd
1​
S. J. McCabe
1​
B. Mitchell
1​
K. S. Ranjitsinhji
1​
M. W. Tate
1​
Sir Pelham Warner
1​
 

DrWolverine

International Captain
Barry Richards was a genius but with only four Tests to his name, he remains cricket’s greatest what if. His true greatness can only be guessed, not confirmed.
 

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