Your ATG team pace bowling trio

[subshakerz]

I've said repeatedly and consistently that it's a viable selection, just not mine, and apparently not that of the wider forum either.

No you have actively criticized those selecting Imran in a way you don't for other selections. It's why you went to the extent of falsifying your own ATG XIs to exclude him.

With regards to Kimber, none of us knows for sure, because he's consistently refered to Marshall and McGrath and being the best and best new ball bowler respectively, and he rates Bumrah exceptionally highly as well, and the best with the old ball.

No the clip above is clear, he considers Imran a perfectly fine no.8 choice.

 

[Thala_0710]

With regards to Kimber, none of us knows for sure, because he's consistently refered to Marshall and McGrath and being the best and best new ball bowler respectively, and he rates Bumrah exceptionally highly as well, and the best with the old ball.

Even today he said that on the shortlist for the no 1/top tier of his ATG bowlers is Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Barnes, Warne, Murali with some outside shouts he believes in Steyn, Garner, O'Reilly and Bumrah (not their yet due to longevity). So idk how much he really thought about putting Imran at 8, or he wants some other guy there.
For example, he puts Gilly in his AT XI but went with Knott here due to Bumble

 

[subshakerz]

Even today he said that on the shortlist for the no 1/top tier of his ATG bowlers is Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Barnes, Warne, Murali with some outside shouts he believes in Steyn, Garner, O'Reilly and Bumrah (not their yet due to longevity). So idk how much he really thought about putting Imran at 8, or he wants some other guy there.
For example, he puts Gilly in his AT XI but went with Knott here due to Bumble

He specifically said he would be fine with Knott because you could have a guy like Imran also in the lower order.

And I suspect Kimble like many in this forum doesn't see the bowling gaps between Imran and the rest of the top tier pacers as that significant as Kyear is making it out to be, which is the essence of the debate.

 

[kyear2]

Even today he said that on the shortlist for the no 1/top tier of his ATG bowlers is Marshall, McGrath, Hadlee, Barnes, Warne, Murali with some outside shouts he believes in Steyn, Garner, O'Reilly and Bumrah (not their yet due to longevity). So idk how much he really thought about putting Imran at 8, or he wants some other guy there.
For example, he puts Gilly in his AT XI but went with Knott here due to Bumble

Can you share a link please?

 

[Thala_0710]

Can you share a link please?

Wagon Wheel Chat | #YouTubeLive - 26-06-25 | LIVE Q&A with Jarrod Kimber | #Cricket

We are offering a 30% off deal for Art of Batting. Just click the link below and use the code GOODAREAS30 at checkout. This works for orders and pre-orders. ...

www.youtube.com

From 36:36 onwards

 

[Thala_0710]

He specifically said he would be fine with Knott because you could have a guy like Imran also in the lower order.

And I suspect Kimble like many in this forum doesn't see the bowling gaps between Imran and the rest of the top tier pacers as that significant as Kyear is making it out to be, which is the essence of the debate.

He does rate Imran very high. So it is definitely possible he does indeed have Imran in his ideal XI as well.
He definitely is a viable option and would be my pick too if I changed it from Hadlee (alongside Marshall and McGrath for me)

 

[kyear2]

He specifically said he would be fine with Knott because you could have a guy like Imran also in the lower order.

And I suspect Kimble like many in this forum doesn't see the bowling gaps between Imran and the rest of the top tier pacers as that significant as Kyear is making it out to be, which is the essence of the debate.

I'm not getting into a protracted argument with you, and I do get your perspective.

What is disingenuous is that you try to frame it as me against the forum, when that's clearly not true, but do you.

With regards to your substantive argument, he wasn't named in his top tier nor the honorable mentions there of, what makes you think that he believes them still to be close? You're projecting.

 

[kyear2]

Wagon Wheel Chat | #YouTubeLive - 26-06-25 | LIVE Q&A with Jarrod Kimber | #Cricket

We are offering a 30% off deal for Art of Batting. Just click the link below and use the code GOODAREAS30 at checkout. This works for orders and pre-orders. ...

www.youtube.com

From 36:36 onwards

I would genuinely like to hear the case for Warne to be number 1.

 

[Thala_0710]

I would genuinely like to hear the case for Warne to be number 1.

If Warne is your number 1 amongst spinners, then it basically comes down to how you rate pacers vs spinners. The low SR and slightly better adaptability across surfaces vs the ability to bowl long spells, especially when you're bowling in a good rhythm, the durability/no need to rest and in general higher loads.
When McGrath and Warne bowled together in the same team, I was of the opinion that McGrath was slightly the superior bowler and more crucial to Australia's success. But it's close and Warne actually has higher peer rep. So it can go either way.

 

[Coronis]

Oh that reminds me I’m still waiting for his book. Then maybe depending on how I like it I might watch some of his content.

 

[kyear2]

If Warne is your number 1 amongst spinners, then it basically comes down to how you rate pacers vs spinners. The low SR and slightly better adaptability across surfaces vs the ability to bowl long spells, especially when you're bowling in a good rhythm, the durability/no need to rest and in general higher loads.
When McGrath and Warne bowled together in the same team, I was of the opinion that McGrath was slightly the superior bowler and more crucial to Australia's success. But it's close and Warne actually has higher peer rep. So it can go either way.

Yeah, that's my argument as well.

That and India owned his ass.

 

[subshakerz]

What is disingenuous is that you try to frame it as me against the forum, when that's clearly not true, but do you.

I was referring to this thread.

With regards to your substantive argument, he wasn't named in his top tier nor the honorable mentions there of, what makes you think that he believes them still to be close? You're projecting.

It's obvious because he considers Imran a viable no.8 in an ATG XI, and has specifically said one shouldn't diminish bowling quality for batting.

Watch the clip:

 

[subshakerz]

@kyear2 in your ATG XI do you have Knott or Gilly?

 

[Thala_0710]

It's obvious because he considers Imran a viable no.8 in an ATG XI, and has specifically said one shouldn't diminish bowling quality for batting.

He considers him a viable no 8, which he definitely is. But he was throwing names out there like Miller and Imran who are all viable options for him, but I don't think he's a certainity for him. He might put Imran at 8 even after full consideration, but it might be someone else as well.

 

[subshakerz]

He considers him a viable no 8, which he definitely is. But he was throwing names out there like Miller and Imran who are all viable options for him, but I don't think he's a certainity for him. He might put Imran at 8 even after full consideration, but it might be someone else as well.

Which is fine, but it's clear from the fact that Jarrod is even strongly considering him at no.8 (in all likelihood will select him based on how he has praised Imran before) that he doesn't consider his bowling a liability like Kyear is portraying.

Do you agree?

 

[Thala_0710]

Which is fine, but it's clear from the fact that Jarrod is even strongly considering him at no.8 (in all likelihood will select him based on how he has praised Imran before) that he doesn't consider his bowling a liability like Kyear is portraying.

Do you agree?

Might just ask him directly during one of his streams instead of speculating. But yeah it's a good chance he does.
Me personally I don't have him as my no 1 choice but he would be if Hadlee didn't exist (Bumrah might overtake him too but we'll see about that). I don't think he's a liability with the ball even in an ATG setup, but he's not in the same tier as the top guys imo that I put him in the XI for his reverse swing skill and batting ability.

 

[subshakerz]

Might just ask him directly during one of his streams instead of speculating. But yeah it's a good chance he does.
Me personally I don't have him as my no 1 choice but he would be if Hadlee didn't exist (Bumrah might overtake him too but we'll see about that). I don't think he's a liability with the ball even in an ATG setup, but he's not in the same tier as the top guys imo that I put him in the XI for his reverse swing skill and batting ability.

All of that is fine but please read the thread and realise that Kyear goes further than you do and suggests (sometimes direclty and sometimes indirectly) Imran is simply outright unsuitable at no.8 in an ATG XI. Which is just a bonkers position to hold.

 

[kyear2]

@kyear2 in your ATG XI do you have Knott or Gilly?

I've said this and you can go digging as I'm sure you will. Gilchrist is my keeper partially based in the fact that the spinner is Warne, and he's proven that he can handle him capably. Anyone else and it's a toss up.

Secondly, the wicketkeeper position is intrinsically an all rounder position, period. Batting is factored into the job description and has been for decades.

Thirdly, there isn't a bowler within tiers of Gilchrist the batsman. His numbers are inflated a bit by era and situation, but he's a legitimately great match winning batsman.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

 

[subshakerz]

I've said this and you can go digging as I'm sure you will. Gilchrist is my keeper partially based in the fact that the spinner is Warne, and he's proven that he can handle him capably. Anyone else and it's a toss up.

Secondly, the wicketkeeper position is intrinsically an all rounder position, period. Batting is factored into the job description and has been for decades.

Thirdly, there isn't a bowler within tiers of Gilchrist the batsman. His numbers are inflated a bit by era and situation, but he's a legitimately great match winning batsman.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

You think it's a tossup of how Knott would do with Warne? Seriously?

You were the one to convince me to switch from Gilly to Knott in my XI. Sad that you seem to speak both sides of your mouth again.

 

[kyear2]

You think it's a tossup of how Knott would do with Warne? Seriously?

You were the one to convince me to switch from Gilly to Knott in my XI. Sad that you seem to speak both sides of your mouth again.

Never said that.

But let's try again.

Any spinner but Warne and I'm choosing Knott.

Even with Warne as the spinner, I go back and forth between the two, because what Knott could do behind the stumps is the best I've seen.

I also have hardly seen Gilly make mistakes during his peak and he was very good to Warne. But I'm under no illusion that he was as good as Healy, far less Knott.