1st Test (Leeds) - 20th June

[Daemon]

Need harshit rana. Dude has some Brains unlike idiot prasidh

Lol no

As much as we like to think we have great alternatives, all we have is

Bumrah > Siraj > Akash > Prasidh > Harshit

I did like Kamboj in the A games for these conditions. He should be in the squad ahead of Arshdeep

 

[Arachnödouche2.0]

Arshdeep's loopy swing will be absolutely carted. Though it would be kinda cool to see two Sikh seamers in the same Test XI.

 

[IcarianStyles]

Jasprit Bumrah right now = 1990s Sachin Tendulkar as a one man army with little support

 

[morgieb]

Lol no

As much as we like to think we have great alternatives, all we have is

Bumrah > Siraj > Akash > Prasidh > Harshit

I did like Kamboj in the A games for these conditions. He should be in the squad ahead of Arshdeep

I know you do need to bowl quite full in England, but I really don't get why Akash isn't playing ahead of Prasidh. Akash legit looks pretty decent, Prasidh got lucky to take wickets on a minefield and bowled a heap of pies in Australia. So did Harshit.

 

[honestbharani]

I think the deep point out to Prasidh was an especially dumb move. Guys' natural length is short of length and he looks to get seam movement from there, not so much swing. You cant give away easy singles off his good balls and think its a good plan. Even Siraj was finding it difficult due to that field.

I would rather have a tradtional third man so that a good ball that gets a nick still does not concede a boundary and have a proper point and cover field.

And I do think both Shardul and Prasidh can offer more with the ball. The captain has to trust them more and encourage them. We know we are not winning this series just with Bumrah and others supporting him given he is only playing 3 of the tests. We need others to get wickets and lots of wickets at that. I dont mind Akashdeep or Arshdeep playiing for Prasidh but it does leave the attack very samey, all same height and mostly same mojo as bowlers. Prasidh and Harshit are the only points of difference with their height and natural hard lengths. That is just the reality. I agree Kambhoj probably could have stayed over and played ahead of Shardul as he is also a decent bat at 8 but that is just about it.

 

[Spark]

I think the deep point out to Prasidh was an especially dumb move. Guys' natural length is short of length and he looks to get seam movement from there, not so much swing. You cant give away easy singles off his good balls and think its a good plan. Even Siraj was finding it difficult due to that field.

I would rather have a tradtional third man so that a good ball that gets a nick still does not concede a boundary and have a proper point and cover field.

And I do think both Shardul and Prasidh can offer more with the ball. The captain has to trust them more and encourage them. We know we are not winning this series just with Bumrah and others supporting him given he is only playing 3 of the tests. We need others to get wickets and lots of wickets at that. I dont mind Akashdeep or Arshdeep playiing for Prasidh but it does leave the attack very samey, all same height and mostly same mojo as bowlers. Prasidh and Harshit are the only points of difference with their height and natural hard lengths. That is just the reality. I agree Kambhoj probably could have stayed over and played ahead of Shardul as he is also a decent bat at 8 but that is just about it.

I think a deep point is kind of necessary against this England side on these grounds and pitches though, it's just so difficult to control the scoring rate if you can't at least cut off that square offside boundary somehow.

 

[honestbharani]

I think a deep point is kind of necessary against this England side on these grounds and pitches though, it's just so difficult to control the scoring rate if you can't at least cut off that square offside boundary somehow.

I mean, for the kind of shots you are talking about, a good third man fielder will still keep it to twos. But the simple dunk down and run wont happen and bowlers can actually execute a plan over more than 1 ball at a batsman.

And if its a proper cut being played, then its a bad ball anyways as it shows the bowler went too short.

 

[Coronis]

Hey this Joe Root guy sucks

 

[Spark]

I mean, for the kind of shots you are talking about, a good third man fielder will still keep it to twos. But the simple dunk down and run wont happen and bowlers can actually execute a plan over more than 1 ball at a batsman.

And if its a proper cut being played, then its a bad ball anyways as it shows the bowler went too short.

Nah the boundaries square are just too short. If you don't have a deep point, anything remotely square of the wicket is four across the wicket block. As a principle I agree with you, you're setting a field for a bad ball, but you ultimately have to give your bowlers some protection and allow them to err a little without paying a massive penalty and England are just too remorseless about capitalising on even okay balls outside off stump to not have protection.

 

[Burgey]

Is he actually the best bowler ever? Probably.

He belongs in the argument from a skill and relative output perspective imo, setting aside arguments re longevity.

I haven’t seen anyone bowl better in Aus than he did out here last summer, and I can recall back as far as the mid-late 70s. It was borderline unbelievable. The only blokes I’d put on the same level are Hadlee 85/86 and Marshall. Without Bumrah Aus wins that series 5-0.

I mean, that’s pretty ****ing good company.

 

[Nintendo]

Pope math time!!

Of the players who have scored over 2000 runs for England @ #3, pope has the 5th best average (47.3, behind Gower, elrich, Dexter, Barrington and Hammond, ahead of root, trott, bucher and hussain).

Despite being 9th on all time runs @#3 for England (2224), he also has the 3rd most 100's there (Pope has 9, Barrington and Hammond are ahead of him at 14 and 13 respectively).

His average will probably drop off at some point during the summer given how frantic he can be, but I think people need to put more respect on his name.

 

[trundler]

Pope math time!!

Of the players who have scored over 2000 runs for England @ #3, pope has the 5th best average (47.3, behind Gower, elrich, Dexter, Barrington and Hammond, ahead of root, trott, bucher and hussain).

Despite being 9th on all time runs @#3 for England (2224), he also has the 3rd most 100's there (Pope has 9, Barrington and Hammond are ahead of him at 14 and 13 respectively).

His average will probably drop off at some point during the summer given how frantic he can be, but I think people need to put more respect on his name.

This test has me thinking whether the only difference between a guy with somewhat underwhelming numbers like Pope and an Ian Bell tier batter is the nature of pitches they've predominantly played on.

 

[h_hurricane]

Pant now has more test hundreds in England than Gavaskar and Kohli. He already has more test hundreds than Dhoni. Only 2 English keepers have more test hundreds in England- Stewart and Prior.

 

[cnerd123]

Arshdeep would be the definition of an IPL pick. He's done nothing in County to deserve a spot here and has a mediocre FC record.

Arshdeep passes the eye test. Pace, swing, left arm. Very likely he lacks discipline or fitness which his why his red ball numbers are average, but there is something there.

I suppose the same can be said about Prasidh. He looked decent when he bowled it full, but was spraying it all over yesterday. Needs a lot of work before he's ready for Tests.

We just don't have anyone right now that has the combination of attributes and consistency to support Bumrah right now. England seems to be in a similar boat, but they've got like 5 decent guys kicking around who are either injured or playing county. We've got no one but this group of rookies.

 

[Nintendo]

This test has me thinking whether the only difference between a guy with somewhat underwhelming numbers like Pope and an Ian Bell tier batter is the nature of pitches they've predominantly played on.

Exactly. Just for reference, batting average in Matches bell played in over his career in England was 34. For games involving England since McCullum took over its 33. Pope's average @3 is 47, bells is 38 with a similar amount of games (30 vs 27).

I just looked at home pitch averages during their careers tbf, so doesn't mention away conditions (bell averages 61 @3 in England over 8 tests, so he's average is held down by away matches). Still interesting IMO.

 

[Burgey]

This test has me thinking whether the only difference between a guy with somewhat underwhelming numbers like Pope and an Ian Bell tier batter is the nature of pitches they've predominantly played on.

Are you saying Ian Bell was not underwhelming? Come on.

Hopefully this knock keeps Pope in the side for he Ashes.

 

[Burgey]

Arshdeep passes the eye test. Pace, swing, left arm. Very likely he lacks discipline or fitness which his why his red ball numbers are average, but there is something there.

I suppose the same can be said about Prasidh. He looked decent when he bowled it full, but was spraying it all over yesterday. Needs a lot of work before he's ready for Tests.

We just don't have anyone right now that has the combination of attributes and consistency to support Bumrah right now. England seems to be in a similar boat, but they've got like 5 decent guys kicking around who are either injured or playing county. We've got no one but this group of rookies.

Why do you think Siraj hasn't kicked on as looked likely? He seems to have, if not plateaued then gone backwards from where he was 3-4 years ago when he looked an awesome prospect.

 

[cnerd123]

Why do you think Siraj hasn't kicked on as looked likely? He seems to have, if not plateaued then gone backwards from where he was 3-4 years ago when he looked an awesome prospect.

Might be because he's playing 3 formats. He's not quite got the same consistency or rhythm in Tests anymore. Maybe he needs some time off from white ball stuff to focus on Tests

 

[Adders]

On Bumrah I think a lot of people maybe won't rate him in the top tier of ATG's at the end of his career as he won't have the same volume of work......but for me and eye test he is definately right in that mix.

Someone else said it earlier, not since McGrath have we had a fast bowler tour Eng where you think how the **** do we survive this spell. Burgey rightly rated him the best to tour Aus since the mid 70's......with only Hadlee and Marshall in that convo.

So we're already comparing him with the very best ever.

 

[Shady Slim]

Nah the boundaries square are just too short. If you don't have a deep point, anything remotely square of the wicket is four across the wicket block. As a principle I agree with you, you're setting a field for a bad ball, but you ultimately have to give your bowlers some protection and allow them to err a little without paying a massive penalty and England are just too remorseless about capitalising on even okay balls outside off stump to not have protection.

if spark says a deep point is acceptable then a deep point is acceptable imho