Which are more difficult?

[DrWolverine]

Asif in 1st innings at home
2 matches. 2 wickets @ 83.

Philander in 1st innings at home
16 matches. 36 wickets @ 23.5

 

[Johan]

Uhm

Asif's home wickets were probably not as supportive as Philander's.

 

[DrWolverine]

If you lower the cutoff to 20 wickets

1st innings(home)


4th innings(home)

 

[DrWolverine]

Most surprising
1. Ambrose’s average of 12.
2. Herath having 9 5Fers.

 

[subshakerz]

Based on what exactly, since it's certainly not results.

Actually watching them. Asif was more deadly, he actually out thought bats, he could exploit more of the surface thanks to his height, could generate more movement, and top bats of his time rated him higher than Philander.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Asif was a level above Philander quality wise but players without full test careers aren’t rated that highly here

 

[Johan]

Asif was a little too inconsistent comparatively to Philander.

 

[subshakerz]

Asif was a little too inconsistent comparatively to Philander.

Both were pitch dependent but Asif played on relatively more flat wickets.

There was his infamous series in England in 2011where he also had a half dozen catches dropped off him too.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Actually watching them. Asif was more deadly, he actually out thought bats, he could exploit more of the surface thanks to his height, could generate more movement, and top bats of his time rated him higher than Philander.

Good. So you agree there was nothing done on ground to make them remotestly comparable.

Yk what, Kyle Jamieson is better than Pat Cummins. Taller and could generate more awkward bounce.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Cummins was actually fast at his peak. Jamieson is fast medium.

 

[subshakerz]

Good. So you agree there was nothing done on ground to make them remotestly comparable.

Yk what, Kyle Jamieson is better than Pat Cummins. Taller and could generate more awkward bounce.

Um, no, I didn't say that. Asif actually won games in the SC unlike Philander. Performed excellently in his only series SA. Bowled well in England too. He was the best new ball bowler I have seen.

I already said I don't mind you rating Philander ahead based on career size but did you actually watch Asif or are you just talking out of thin air? If I prefer Asif in this scenario it's based on watching both and what he did.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Um, no, I didn't say that. Asif actually won games in the SC unlike Philander. Performed excellently in his only series SA. Bowled well in England too. He was the best new ball bowler I have seen.

I already said I don't mind you rating Philander ahead based on career size but did you actually watch Asif or are you just talking out of thin air? If I prefer Asif in this scenario it's based on watching both and what he did.

Philander leagues better in England. And Asif averages 42 at Home. No thanks. Saying he is in a tier above Philander is funny NGL.

 

[subshakerz]

Philander leagues better in England. And Asif averages 42 at Home. No thanks. Saying he is in a tier above Philander is funny NGL.

So you never actually watched Asif then? Got it.

Asif played only 4 tests at home and that includes the 2006 Karachi test against India he helped win. The rest were flat decks and he actually bowled well in them though figures don't reflect that.

Let's ignore Philander sucks collectively in India and SL.

Philander isn't leagues better in England, I would defy anyone who watched his spells in 2011 to think that. As mentioned he had a half dozen drop catches off him in that time.

I rate Philander ahead of Asif based on career but if you ask me who is the bigger threat in these conditions for the scenario, yes I think he is a level ahead of Philander. Asif was simply more skilled.

You really are a blind average reader sometime honestly.

 

[Thala_0710]

Asif played only 4 tests at home and that includes the 2006 Karachi test against India he helped win. The rest were flat decks and he actually bowled well in them though figures don't reflect that.

Let's ignore Philander sucks collectively in India and SL.

Philander isn't leagues better in England, I would defy anyone who watched his spells in 2011 to think that. As mentioned he had a half dozen drop catches off him in that time.

I rate Philander ahead of Asif based on career but if you ask me who is the bigger threat in these conditions for the scenario, yes I think he is a level ahead of Philander. Asif was simply more skilled.

Completely agree

 

[Johan]

Asif being much better than Philander is not the mean thing though, Asif on his best day would be better than Philander probably but would have way more bad ways too, and of course, the factor of not even having an international career really let alone longevity

 

[subshakerz]

Asif being much better than Philander is not the mean thing though, Asif on his best day would be better than Philander probably but would have way more bad ways too, and of course, the factor of not even having an international career really let alone longevity

Yeah I just disagree about having more bad days based on what I saw. He was very consistent. Longevity yes is fine.

For example, in Australia in 2009, he took 12 or 13 wickets @ 28 but what the figures won't show was that he was a consistent threat with the ball. Pakistan dropped at least 15 catches that series.

In the 3rd test, for example, Asif had figures of 2-104. Looks bad but in his opening spell he had Aussies in all sorts of trouble. He has Watson dropped early. And then with Australia at 71-3 he had Ponting dropped for zero off his bowling, a sitter. Ponting went on to make 209. Ponting praises Asif to this day.

In England in 2010 he took 12 wickets@33 in four tests. Looks ordinary. Yet it is completely misleading, the guy was consistently bowling some of the most unplayable deliveries yet Pakistan were regularly shelling at least 1-2 catches behind the wicket an innings especially at cover or slips.

Here's a compilation of some of them to get an idea.

Most Catches Dropped in Series - PAK vs ENG 2010 Series

Most Catches Dropped in Series PAK vs ENG 2010 Series#dropcatch #pakistanvsengland #testseries

m.youtube.com

 

[capt_Luffy]

Asif being better than Philander was somehow worse than Mushtaq over Ashwin, will give you that much LoL.

 

[subshakerz]

Asif being better than Philander was somehow worse than Mushtaq over Ashwin, will give you that much LoL.

I never argued the latter.

And since you never watched Asif bowl you should have the humility to withhold judgment and not comment.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Asif was as accurate and consistent as Philander

At worst Asif was of similar quality to like Pollock. I think he was better tbh although Pollock obviously had the better career.

 

[capt_Luffy]

I never argued the latter.

And since you never watched Asif bowl you should have the humility to withhold judgment and not comment.

I watched clips. And seeing his name being thrown around as of similar quality to Pollock at worst makes me humble enough to thrash him.