Coronis
Hall of Fame Member
No Trueman?
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Would Botham make it to your England ATG XI?
- Thread starter subshakerz
- Start date
Probably not. Hammond (and Grace) as a 5th bowling option kind make leaving Botham out an easier call.
It would get interesting again if say Ben Stokes has an amazing end to his career with both bat and ball and becomes a must pick for an England ATG XI. Botham suddenly enters the equation again.
Stokes at 6, Botham at 7. Knott at 8,
It would get interesting again if say Ben Stokes has an amazing end to his career with both bat and ball and becomes a must pick for an England ATG XI. Botham suddenly enters the equation again.
Stokes at 6, Botham at 7. Knott at 8,
Red_Ink_Squid
Global Moderator
Have you considered Woakes?
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
You do really need to find a place for him. Amazing player until he got fat, lazy and useless.
My ATG team for today is based on players from the modern era. It has twin advantages that (a) I've actually seen them play and (b) they played the game in modern conditions. It's fun to have arguments about whether, say, Rhodes was better than Botham, or an opener who faced spinners is better than Gooch, but if we're going to be honest it's meaningless. (On another day I'd say the opposite).
Anyway:
Gooch
Cook
Gower
Root
Pietersen
Stokes (c)
Botham
Prior (w)
Flintoff
Swann
Anderson
Not sure about the dressing-room dynamics though. A few "big personalities".
My ATG team for today is based on players from the modern era. It has twin advantages that (a) I've actually seen them play and (b) they played the game in modern conditions. It's fun to have arguments about whether, say, Rhodes was better than Botham, or an opener who faced spinners is better than Gooch, but if we're going to be honest it's meaningless. (On another day I'd say the opposite).
Anyway:
Gooch
Cook
Gower
Root
Pietersen
Stokes (c)
Botham
Prior (w)
Flintoff
Swann
Anderson
Not sure about the dressing-room dynamics though. A few "big personalities".
shortpitched713
Cricketer Of The Year
Is Underwood sufficiently modern for you for the spinner spot?
Also probably would take Broad over Flintoff honestly. On the batting side trying to think who is just missing out in the middle order as the openers seem pretty set in stone.
shortpitched713
Cricketer Of The Year
Feels a bit strange, and especially for England a bit defeating the purpose as they had really good immediate postwar players (Hutton included) so it tends to just look heavily skewed to that.
I remember one time I made a criteria for modern of something like >60% of career after 1962, just so I could barely sneak Sobers into the side, lol. I wonder what a team like that would look like for England.
ataraxia
International Coach
I agree that the only sides in which Gooch can be picked have 12 players.
Johan
International Coach
Snowy's the 12th man, and Gooch doesn't really have any competitors for his spot alongside Boycott for a post 1960 England team.
capt_Luffy
Hall of Fame Member
Okay, Englishmen I have watched to play Tests:
Alaistar Cook
Ben Duckett
Jonathan Trott
Kevin Pietersen
Joe Root
Ben Stokes*
Matt Prior+
Chris Woakes
Graeme Swann
Stuart Broad
James Anderson
Alaistar Cook
Ben Duckett
Jonathan Trott
Kevin Pietersen
Joe Root
Ben Stokes*
Matt Prior+
Chris Woakes
Graeme Swann
Stuart Broad
James Anderson
Gob
International Coach
If you were old enough to see KP, surely you must have seen Trescothick, Strauss, Vaughan etc. All so much better that Buckett. Best I've seen would effectively be from late 90s so
Trescothick
Cook
Root
KP
Thorpe
Stokes
Flintoff
Prior
Broad
Swann
Anderson
capt_Luffy
Hall of Fame Member
Thala_0710
International Regular
Brook has overtaken trott I'd say
capt_Luffy
Hall of Fame Member
Root and KP neither is a good no 3. Let's see Harry playing Bumrah.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
Both good calls.
My initial draft had Underwood but I went for Swann (a) for his batting and (b) because Underwood is a bit before my time. He was playing when I was a boy but I don't remember him, other than the curiosity of how fast he bowled for a spinner.
I also can't argue against Broad playing ahead of Flintoff. But I like the idea of Fred in the lower order, and he was a serious handful as a bowler, a bit quicker than Broad and the other seamers I've picked, and was generally a hero. And there's something great about Stokes, Botham and Freddie in the same team.
I feel dirty leaving out both Thorpe and Robin Smith. Loved those guys. But Gower was my boyhood hero, and played a lot at no.3, so there you go.
Johan
International Coach
team invalidated.
Johan
International Coach
When Brook walks out to the crease, Bumrah better start praying to whatever god he believes in.
zaremba
Cricketer Of The Year
Just done a statsguru search on England number 3 batsmen.
Didn't realise that Barrington and Hammond batted so much there:
- Barrington 2626 runs @ 77.23 (13 x 100, 7 x 50)
- Hammond 3440 runs @ 74.78 (14 x 100, 4 x 50, HS 336*).
Insane stats, and insane conversion rates.
Some other players of note (batting at 3):
- Dexter 2798 @51.81
- Gower 2619 @49.41
- Trott 3109 @45.72
- Root 2484 @43.57
Didn't realise that Barrington and Hammond batted so much there:
- Barrington 2626 runs @ 77.23 (13 x 100, 7 x 50)
- Hammond 3440 runs @ 74.78 (14 x 100, 4 x 50, HS 336*).
Insane stats, and insane conversion rates.
Some other players of note (batting at 3):
- Dexter 2798 @51.81
- Gower 2619 @49.41
- Trott 3109 @45.72
- Root 2484 @43.57
shortpitched713
Cricketer Of The Year
Underwood was incredible, from what I've seen of him. He has great highlights both at home and away. And for me one of the greatest finger spinners of all time, just after Ashwin.
A team with Stokes, Botham and Flintoff would would make for box office viewing.
I'd probably replace Prior with a specialist keeper as the team already bats deep. Maybe Russell, or Foakes or even James Foster.