Jacques Kallis vs Imran Khan

[Thala_0710]

They also get more injuries to the aforementioned back and fingers.

Yeah the back issues are quite bad, I actually used to stand in the slips at my school and district level, and they weren't even 90 over 4-5 day games, but they certainly take a toll on your back.

 

[subshakerz]

Yeah but the focus levels are extremely high in the slips because your reaction times need to be faster. You can certainly chill out a lot more at fine leg or third man.

You aren't moving as much though. Someone in the covers or offside is literally chasing the ball every over while keeping their eye out for catches.

 

[kyear2]

Yeah the back issues are quite bad, I actually used to stand in the slips at my school and district level, and they weren't even 90 over 4-5 day games, but they certainly take a toll on your back.

There's an article that I've read that really delved into it, I'll look for it tomorrow.

There was a third body part referenced as well, I just can't recall at the moment.

 

[Thala_0710]

You aren't moving as much though. Someone in the covers or offside is literally chasing the ball every over while keeping their eye out for catches.

That is much easier to do, trust me

 

[capt_Luffy]

That is much easier to do, trust me

I will be honest, I found slip fielding significantly less strenuous than fielding in the outfield. Have kept a few times, and they certainly aren't comparable.

 

[Bolo.]

If you regularly keep your bowling below a certain threshold yeah you can sustain it with a longer batting career and with a higher output. It's not nearly as impressive as sustaining a higher bowling load as a pure Frontline pace bowler while batter and captain even for a shorter period though.

A higher workload in a game is tougher. As is a higher workload per season or per career. You run out of juice on all three in slightly different ways.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Isn't slip fielding literally the least taxing place to field in

Physically yes, but mentally probably the most taxing (or 2nd to silly mid on/off/point)

 

[capt_Luffy]

Physically yes, but mentally probably the most taxing (or 2nd to silly mid on/off/point)

+Short leg

 

[subshakerz]

A higher workload in a game is tougher. As is a higher workload per season or per career. You run out of juice on all three in slightly different ways.

I can't think of a cricketer who took on Imran's load though per test for that long a period except Sobers.

It's quite simple for me.

Imran had a full career duration and sample size for a Frontline fast bowler.

Kallis had the same for a batsman.

Imran was a good lower order bat.

Kallis was a 5th bowler overall,often used as 3rd or 4th.

Imran was captain for at least half his career. Kallis a slip for his whole career.

Looking at the above, Imran's career load just seems that much impressive regardless of if Kallis had more tests. Imran was bowling almost twice as much as Kallis per test while being an outright fast paceman, several yards quicker than Kallis, captaining a side and spending a fair time at the crease.

Don't get me wrong, Kallis raw numbers are very impressive.

 

[Coronis]

some of the people who were made captains were already mentally challenged, like Chanderpaul, surely captaincy can't be that mentally challenging if he could do it.

Bruh. Insult his playing and style as much as you want. But this is over the top. And quite unjustified and irrelevant to the thread. Not a fan of this post. You do much better work usually.

 

[Xix2565]

OFC longevity matters on for discussing workload. How many overs would Imran have bowled per game if he'd played 166?

Imran managed around 37 overs per Test in all, even accounting for injuries, while Kallis managed about 18-19. I don't think there's a world where Imran with more Tests approaches Kallis's level since he's just a generally better bowler and so would be called upon more regardless. I haven't seen how Kallis has shown he could be a lead bowler on that level at any point in his career to be considered as a useful hypothetical in this comparison.

 

[Coronis]

Imran managed around 37 overs per Test in all, even accounting for injuries, while Kallis managed about 18-19. I don't think there's a world where Imran with more Tests approaches Kallis's level since he's just a generally better bowler and so would be called upon more regardless. I haven't seen how Kallis has shown he could be a lead bowler on that level at any point in his career to be considered as a useful hypothetical in this comparison.

I don’t see a world where Imran approaches 100 tests as a bowler, let alone 166.

 

[Xix2565]

I don’t see a world where Imran approaches 100 tests as a bowler, let alone 166.

I think in a world where people love Marshall/McGrath/Hadlee as among the greatest cricketers of all time over Kallis more often than not, Tests played become less material to the discussion.

 

[Coronis]

I think in a world where people love Marshall/McGrath/Hadlee as among the greatest cricketers of all time over Kallis more often than not, Tests played become less material to the discussion.

I’m just responding to that particular post fyi. And I do consider Kallis above all of those 3 if that helps.

 

[subshakerz]

I don’t see a world where Imran approaches 100 tests as a bowler, let alone 166.

How many bowlers bowling fast reached 100 tests? Akram maybe?

Imran career sample is pretty much in line with fast pacers of his era. I do think if doctors had managed his shin injury better he would have crossed 100 easily though.

It's simply unreasonable to expect fast bowlers to reach anywhere near Kallis number of tests.

 

[Bolo.]

I can't think of a cricketer who took on Imran's load though per test for that long a period except Sobers.

It's quite simple for me.

Imran had a full career duration and sample size for a Frontline fast bowler.

Kallis had the same for a batsman.

Imran was a good lower order bat.

Kallis was a 5th bowler overall,often used as 3rd or 4th.

Imran was captain for at least half his career. Kallis a slip for his whole career.

Looking at the above, Imran's career load just seems that much impressive regardless of if Kallis had more tests. Imran was bowling almost twice as much as Kallis per test while being an outright fast paceman, several yards quicker than Kallis, captaining a side and spending a fair time at the crease.

Don't get me wrong, Kallis raw numbers are very impressive.

Yip, Imran's workload was exceptionally high.

Kallis still bowled more than him and scored nearly 10k more runs.

The workload per game is fairly comparable. I think Imran's is probably higher, but that it wouldn't be if Kallis didn't cut back on the bowling due to a heavier schedule (and wanting to play more tests). Anyway, this is all debatable. The massive, massive difference in total workload is not.

Imran managed around 37 overs per Test in all, even accounting for injuries, while Kallis managed about 18-19. I don't think there's a world where Imran with more Tests approaches Kallis's level since he's just a generally better bowler and so would be called upon more regardless. I haven't seen how Kallis has shown he could be a lead bowler on that level at any point in his career to be considered as a useful hypothetical in this comparison.

Imran was primarily a bowler and Kallis was primarily a bat. You cant run a comparison in 1 discipline without out doing it in the other unless you are specifically trying to pick a winner.

 

[subshakerz]

Yip, Imran's workload was exceptionally high.

Kallis still bowled more than him and scored nearly 10k more runs.

The workload per game is fairly comparable. I think Imran's is probably higher, but that it wouldn't be if Kallis didn't cut back on the bowling due to a heavier schedule (and wanting to play more tests). Anyway, this is all debatable. The massive, massive difference in total workload is not.

If Imran per test workload is higher and he had a sufficiently long career, which he did, then Kallis having a higher cumulative workload is irrelevant. Because what matters is how good you were on an average test as an AR. Otherwise you might as well argue Kapil Dev was a better AR than Keith Miller based on workload.

The only reason Kallis has a higher cumulative is because he couldn't by his own words manage the higher per test workload. He has a higher total workload than Sobers too but there is little doubt Sobers was more of a workhorse.

And not just captaincy, you greatly underestimate the sheer workload of being a 90MPH bowler like Imran. Being a Frontline bat is far, far easier.

 

[ankitj]

Is @kyear2 supporting Kallis in this comparison just to spite the gentle soul @subshakerz?

 

[subshakerz]

Is @kyear2 supporting Kallis in this comparison just to spite the gentle soul @subshakerz?

Lol I find it interesting Kyear admits Imran is better but won't actually vote for him in the poll. Quite telling.

 

[Xix2565]

Imran was primarily a bowler and Kallis was primarily a bat. You cant run a comparison in 1 discipline without out doing it in the other unless you are specifically trying to pick a winner.

I've already done that though, in terms of primary and secondary disciplines. I agree that Kallis is the better batter and Imran the better bowler, but I rate the combination of what Imran offered as a top tier bowler with some batting talent over the top tier batter with some bowling talent in Kallis.

I’m just responding to that particular post fyi. And I do consider Kallis above all of those 3 if that helps.

Nah that's cool with me, hope I've clarified my position in that case.