Viv Richards vs steve smith

[centurymaker]

tbf both those guys did similar things, Smith had one huge series but Root has constantly made runs whenever purely focused on batting.

This.

Ashwin had enough success vs Smith in recent series.

2020- Smith 64 runs, 3 dismissals (Avg 21.33)
2023 - Smith 24 runs, 2 dismissals (Avg 12)

Smith had that series in his peak, though things also went his way. Root has been more consistent overall and imo has looked more assured against Indian spinners particularly Ashwin. So I am not surprised that Ashwin rates Root higher.

 

[centurymaker]

Root actually made runs against bumrah in 2021 series while smith struggled to just survive vs him. Ofcourse root struggled in 24 series but not as much as smith

In BGT Smith has two hundreds but do note that more than half of his runs were against the likes of Reddy, Jadeja (who was terrible all series in graveyard conditions for spinners). So Smith made the most of it against India's 4th and 5th bowling options which is what good players do. But he did struggle against Akash Deep big time. And only looked to play out Bumrah (which was a good idea). So in his two hundreds, Smith doesn't have much runs vs Bumrah. So if we were to do a head to head average of Smith & Bumrah from the BGT, the avg would between 15 and 20.
@PlayerComparisons

 

[centurymaker]

Not saying its underrated but would take his own 2017 bgt over it

2019 Ashes performance was much better.

 

[Kirkut]

It's probably best not to use Bumrah as the benchmark here. Root averages 35 against him but has been dismissed 9 times in tests, while Smith averages 24 but levels it out in the dismissals where he's been dismissed only 4 times. So it's more like who's relatively more worse off while facing Bumrah rather than one doing better and the other failing.

And let's not buy into peer reviews, by that logic Sachin should not be rated among the top players of fast bowling since only Brett Lee rates him as the toughest batsman to bowl to.

 

[akilana]

https://www.indiatvnews.com/sports/...oughest-batter-he-bowled-to-2025-01-30-973814 ashwin rated joe root has toughest batsmen he bowled to

he's salty

 

[Prince EWS]

It's probably best not to use Bumrah as the benchmark here. Root averages 35 against him but has been dismissed 9 times in tests, while Smith averages 24 but levels it out in the dismissals where he's been dismissed only 4 times. So it's more like who's relatively more worse off while facing Bumrah rather than one doing better and the other failing.

And let's not buy into peer reviews, by that logic Sachin should not be rated among the top players of fast bowling since only Brett Lee rates him as the toughest batsman to bowl to.

Smith didn't really face Bumrah during his peak anyway so it's kind of irrelevant to the actually topic, and Root isn't even mentioned in the OP.

 

[kyear2]

Everything outside his peak?

He's overrated due to people who over-value peaks, people who value strike rate / aura, and people who might have followed his career live and slightly conflated the fact that he was the best or second best ODI batsman of all time with Test exploits.

He's still an ATG and definitely in my top 20.

I don't think Viv's peak is overrated though, just over-valued. Smith's peak is massively overrated.

I think it's incorrect to lump aura with strike rate.

And strike rate is definitely not overrated.

Aura doesn't come into rating cricketers, and if it does it doesn't apply to anyone more than Lillee and Warne.

Viv s/r impacted games, strategies and an era.

 

[centurymaker]

It's probably best not to use Bumrah as the benchmark here. Root averages 35 against him but has been dismissed 9 times in tests, while Smith averages 24 but levels it out in the dismissals where he's been dismissed only 4 times. So it's more like who's relatively more worse off while facing Bumrah rather than one doing better and the other failing.

And let's not buy into peer reviews, by that logic Sachin should not be rated among the top players of fast bowling since only Brett Lee rates him as the toughest batsman to bowl to.

Smith's only played Bumrah in 7 or so Tests.
Root has played him in 14 Tests. So ofcourse the number of expected dismissals would be double. But Root's done better head to head, especially if he's averaged 35 and Smith's averaged 24.

Root = 315 runs / 9 outs = 35 avg
Smith = 96 runs / 4 outs = 24 avg

But I get your point.

 

[Prince EWS]

And strike rate is definitely not overrated.

It's impossible for something to be over-rated if no-one actually disagrees with me. Saying something is over-rated is quite explicitly saying most people are wrong.

So thank you for supporting my point.

 

[kyear2]

But peer ratings are equally important in measuring greatness of a player

Yes, it very much is.

 

[sayon basak]

@Johan seems like ashwin rates root ahead of smith

Ask him again. He'll also rate Kohli ahead of both.

 

[Johan]

Ask him again. He'll also rate Kohli ahead of both.

didn't he say he got Kohli out effortlessly?

 

[Johan]

It's probably best not to use Bumrah as the benchmark here. Root averages 35 against him but has been dismissed 9 times in tests, while Smith averages 24 but levels it out in the dismissals where he's been dismissed only 4 times. So it's more like who's relatively more worse off while facing Bumrah rather than one doing better and the other failing.

Tbf I won't really call Root with Bumrah a "failiure", Bumrah is a storm, he can't beaten so far from what I've seen, he is someone who you must whether, other than Donald Bradman, Jack Hobbs and perhaps Sir Viv I don't think there has been a player in this great sport who can beat Bumrah consistently so both Root and Smith try to whether through the storm instead of attacking Bumrah.

In matches involving Bumrah

Root: 1424 runs @ 56.96, 6 tons
Smith: 536 runs @ 38.28, 3 tons

 

[capt_Luffy]

didn't he say he got Kohli out effortlessly?

He did say Sehwag>>>All. Basically he thrashed him in the nets when he was practically retired.

 

[Johan]

He did say Sehwag>>>All. Basically he thrashed him in the nets when he was practically retired.

tbf, against spin, that's true as ****

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Root has done really well against India overall but has objectively struggled against Bumrah specifically (average of 32) but has dominated the rest of the Indian attack like Shami and Siraj (deserves credit for that)

 

[Johan]

Root has really struggled against Bumrah specifically (average of 32) but has dominated the rest of the Indian attack like Shami and Siraj (deserves credit for that)

average of 57 with 6 tons isn't really struggling, he hasn't specifically made all his runs against him but nobody can, he also has fine numbers against him when not being overbowled but at the end, whethering out the storm is how Rome beat Hannibal, it's a valid tactic.

 

[capt_Luffy]

average of 57 with 6 tons isn't really struggling, he hasn't specifically made all his runs against him but nobody can, he also has fine numbers against him when not being overbowled but at the end, whethering out the storm is how Rome beat Hannibal, it's a valid tactic.

Hannibal is cooler than any Caesar though

 

[sayon basak]

Hannibal is cooler than any Caesar though

Hannibal sounds like some ancient canaanite deity.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Hannibal sounds like some ancient canaanite deity.

Not like someone with a liking for fava beans???