Smith SA (away) or Kohli's India (home): Which had the more impressive record?

[subshakerz]

80s is 10 years

99-07 is 8 years.

If we take 2013-2022 that is 10 years and Ind only lost twice, one of which had Jadeja and Shami missing.

Yeah but 2013 to 2015 was captain Dhoni and a different side. So we should take 2015 to 2024. India lost four tests in that time.

 

[subshakerz]

The 2023 Aus loss and 24 Eng loss are more due to Ind being in transition than anything. I don't see Eng/Aus winning a match next time around when the batting will have matured.

2023 definitely counts. 24 Eng is debatable I agree but core of the team was still there.

 

[PaulLennon]

2023 definitely counts. 24 Eng is debatable I agree but core of the team was still there.

Naah 2023 there was no Bumrah and Pujara Kohli were shells of their peak era.

 

[subshakerz]

Naah 2023 there was no Bumrah and Pujara Kohli were shells of their peak era.

Bumrah wasnt there 2015 to 2018 too.
Kohli was in poor form 2020 onwards, are we going to exclude that? WI in the 80s also had player transitions too. Aus in 2000s lost Waugh in the middle. Happens.

 

[subshakerz]

India under Kohli at home hit on a formula and kept running with it ruthlessly.

Whereas SA's run was a triumph of resilience and adaptability, often back to the wall.

 

[PaulLennon]

In this run there are basically two Indian sides.

The 2015-19 run's primary architects were Kohli, Pujara, Rahane, Vijay, Shami, Ashwin, Jadeja, Ishant with support from Umesh, Dhawan, Bhuvi, KLR etc. Rohit was playing but he was crap.

Most of these guys debuted after the old guard of SRT, Dravid, Zaheer, Sehwag, Harbhajan generation retired in the early 2010s. Their baptism of fire was the 13-14 year where India played SA, NZ, Eng and Aus away.

The post Covid era 's primary architects are Bumrah, Pant, Siraj, Iyer, Axar with support from Kuldeep, Gill, Shardul, Sundar etc along with Ashwin, Jadeja, Shami, KL Rahul from the old guard who are still good and Rohit who revived his career in 2019. The others in the first wave are retired/dropped due to loss of form/age (though they had some contributions in the post covid era). Most of these guys debuted in the late 10s, early 20s (and it can be said that Rohit also made his second "debut" in 2019).

So post Covid India has been in transition. It's just that this transition was not as sudden as the one in 11 (when the entire old team started to suck after being very good from 07-11. Maybe the World Cup win doused all their fire).

In the 2013 SA series India had a completely new batting lineup with only Pujara/Dhoni being there from 2010 (no Sehwag, Gambhir, SRT, Dravid, Laxman). At least this time around Pujara/Rahane contributed a bit in their lean years (as has Kohli).

This Eng series might have shown the core that will be in place until the next transition starts.

Jaiswal
Gill
Sarfaraz
Paddikal/Iyer?
KLR
Pant
Sundar
Axar
Kuldeep
Bumrah
Siraj

 

[Arachnodouche]

India under Kohli at home hit on a formula and kept running with it ruthlessly.

Whereas SA's run was a triumph of resilience and adaptability, often back to the wall.

Nice, so South Africa get all the heroic epithets. India? meh, chance and cunning's all.

 

[PaulLennon]

Bumrah wasnt there 2015 to 2018 too.
Kohli was in poor form 2020 onwards, are we going to exclude that? WI in the 80s also had player transitions too. Aus in 2000s lost Waugh in the middle. Happens.

But why exclude the 13-15 home record then? The team was the same minus Dhoni retiring.

Kohli's entire core came of age during 13-15, especially in the 14 away series.

 

[subshakerz]

In this run there are basically two Indian sides.

The 2015-19 run's primary architects were Kohli, Pujara, Rahane, Vijay, Shami, Ashwin, Jadeja, Ishant with support from Umesh, Dhawan, Bhuvi, KLR etc. Rohit was playing but he was crap.

Most of these guys debuted after the old guard of SRT, Dravid, Zaheer, Sehwag, Harbhajan generation retired in the early 2010s. Their baptism of fire was the 13-14 year where India played SA, NZ, Eng and Aus away.

The post Covid era 's primary architects are Bumrah, Pant, Siraj, Iyer, Axar with support from Kuldeep, Gill, Shardul, Sundar etc along with Ashwin, Jadeja, Shami, KL Rahul from the old guard who are still good and Rohit who revived his career in 2019. The others in the first wave are retired/dropped due to loss of form/age (though they had some contributions in the post covid era). Most of these guys debuted in the late 10s, early 20s (and it can be said that Rohit also made his second "debut" in 2019).

So post Covid India has been in transition. It's just that this transition was not as sudden as the one in 11 (when the entire old team started to suck after being very good from 07-11. Maybe the World Cup win doused all their fire).

In the 2013 SA series India had a completely new batting lineup with only Pujara/Dhoni being there from 2010 (no Sehwag, Gambhir, SRT, Dravid, Laxman). At least this time around Pujara/Rahane contributed a bit in their lean years (as has Kohli).

This Eng series might have shown the core that will be in place until the next transition starts.

Jaiswal
Gill
Sarfaraz
Paddikal/Iyer?
KLR
Pant
Sundar
Axar
Kuldeep
Bumrah
Siraj

Ok but I think the core of the side was there was 2015 onwards, except for Bumrah and Pant.

 

[subshakerz]

But why exclude the 13-15 home record then? The team was the same minus Dhoni retiring.

Kohli's entire core came of age during 13-15, especially in the 14 away series.

I start it with Kohli's captaincy.

 

[subshakerz]

Nice, so South Africa get all the heroic epithets. India? meh, chance and cunning's all.

India's home dominance wasnt heroic. They were Goliath, not David.

 

[capt_Luffy]

India's home dominance wasnt heroic. They were Goliath, not David.

South Africa has lost two series at home over that period despite being clearly the best team in the world though....

 

[Bolo.]

WI also drew a home series against Pak.

I don't rank WI home as highly as India either.

 

[subshakerz]

South Africa has lost two series at home over that period despite being clearly the best team in the world though....

Home record not in question or even which team was better.

 

[subshakerz]

I don't rank WI home as highly as India either.

I think losing only 1 test in a decade is a significant achievement.

 

[Bolo.]

I think losing only 1 test in a decade is a significant achievement.

Fewer series and more draws. It's definitely close though.

 

[subshakerz]

Fewer series and more draws. It's definitely close though.

Yes it is close. I think Australia is probably the best. They had two drawn series due to rain and when McWarne were absent, but otherwise were insanely dominant.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Yes it is close. I think Australia is probably the best. They had two drawn series due to rain and when McWarne were absent, but otherwise were insanely dominant.

India also haven't lost any home series for over a decade and has well 17 in row; Australia's best is 8.

 

[subshakerz]

India also haven't lost any home series for over a decade and has well 17 in row; Australia's best is 8.

We are talking about Australia's home strength in those 8 years when they had an ATG side.

But if you want to play that game Australia didn't lose a home series from 93 to 2008. And WI didn't lose a home series from from the late 70s to 95.

 

[capt_Luffy]

We are talking about Australia's home strength in those 8 years when they had an ATG side.

But if you want to play that game Australia didn't lose a home series from 93 to 2008. And WI didn't lose a home series from from the last 70s to 95.

But they both drew! Not to mention they played less series at home.