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*Official* Australia tour of New Zealand Feb-Mar 2024

Skyliner

Skyliner

International 12th Man
Flem274* said:
Bro when you play sport sometimes team mate exchanges get a bit blunt.

I've heard stories of Wagner turning out at ND training and lifting the intensity several levels, including chat. He'd keep people pumped for training instead of going through the motions tbh. Hard practice is good practice.
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Absolutely that toughness and ‘edge’ was a special quality in Wagner. But it just seems something was up in that last test, the bloke wasn’t happy at all.
He had the perfect platform to retire last year. The nail-biting end of the test against England, then a hobbling end to the test against Sri Lanka as Kane and he contrived a dramatic final run to win the game. It seemed that fate had offered up a chance for him to go out on a high.
 
jcas0167

jcas0167

International Debutant
SteveNZ said:
Yeah, ideally, but as I said a few pages back, you can't take the uber-competitive Wags for so long, then expect you'll get a very considered and realistic Wags at the end to realise it's time to walk away. The fire and self confidence that got him this far was always going to cloud when the right time was.
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Exactly. We saw this play out in Rocky IV:

Rocky : Look, you're a great fighter no doubt about that but we've got to face the facts too, maybe you don't want to believe it but maybe the show's over.

Apollo : That's easy for you to say you're still on top what happens when you're on top then what? Where do we go? Because we sure as hell can't be born again.

Rocky : I know we can't be born again but let's face it we've got to change.

Apollo : I don't want to change I like who I am.

Rocky : I like who you are too but look at that.

[to the footage]

Rocky : you don't want to believe this but that's not us anymore we can't do it the way we did it before we're changing, turning into regular people.

Apollo : No maybe you think you're changing but you can't change who you really are and you forget all this money you have around you because it doesn't change a thing we don't even have a choice. See, we're born with this killer instinct that you can't just turn off and on like some radio. We have to be in the middle of the action 'cause we're the warriors. And without some challenge, without some damn war to fight, then the warrior might as well be dead, Stallion!
 
S

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Athlai said:
Anyone that retires on a high might very well just have retired too soon
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Yeah, great point. I'd be interested in knowing whether people, over time, care about whether they went out on a high or not. I don't imagine anyone will look back on Neil Wagner's career in any amount of time and say ehh he was great but he went on too long.

Michael Jordan finished his career for the Washington Wizards but no one talks about that.
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
It can become an issue if it drags on for years and years. Tendulkar in particular I think gets a bit of side-eye for the last 3 years of his career - though that was a very special case where due to his hallowed status the selectors basically couldn't drop him even while he was averaging low-mid 30's in the number 4 role. But Wagner's only played about 5 tests since his decline became really obvious and has only played 2 since what would've been his opportunity for a Hollywood-style farewell.
 
S

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
www.espncricinfo.com

Taylor on Wagner: 'I think it's a forced retirement'

Finch says New Zealand could have used Wagner in Wellington where Australia pulled ahead thanks to a century 10th wicket partnership
www.espncricinfo.com www.espncricinfo.com

I really don't understand how this is a headline. Surely this falls in the no S, Sherlock stakes?

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz www.stuff.co.nz

This one is a better news angle, even if I don't necessarily agree with it. I think the idea that if Wags was there, Hazelwood and Green wouldn't have put on 100 seems fanciful at best.
 
Dick Rockett

Dick Rockett

International Vice-Captain
Flem274* said:
It can be done. We've seen it in miniature with England. Within 50 years we went from pats on the head from smug colonial imperialists to using them as practice for our B team before the world test final and winning comfortably. They immediately threw money at the most meme New Zealander they could think of to teach them to play with a backbone.
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I'm no fan of English cricket but I had to admire the way they saw problems and took dramatic steps to fix them. I'm referring to their response to us humiliating them at the 2015 world cup and the hiring of Brendon McCullum as test coach.

Would much prefer that kind of attitude instead of the current atmosphere of managerialism in NZ Cricket. BMac should be leading us rather than Gary Stead, whose coaching is even less inspiring than his batting was.
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
SteveNZ said:
www.espncricinfo.com

Taylor on Wagner: 'I think it's a forced retirement'

Finch says New Zealand could have used Wagner in Wellington where Australia pulled ahead thanks to a century 10th wicket partnership
www.espncricinfo.com www.espncricinfo.com

I really don't understand how this is a headline. Surely this falls in the no S, Sherlock stakes?

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz www.stuff.co.nz

This one is a better news angle, even if I don't necessarily agree with it. I think the idea that if Wags was there, Hazelwood and Green wouldn't have put on 100 seems fanciful at best.
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Peak Wagner, sure. 2024 Wagner would've hemorrhaged runs in that situation.
 
Bahnz

Bahnz

Hall of Fame Member
16 tins of Spam said:
I'm no fan of English cricket but I had to admire the way they saw problems and took dramatic steps to fix them. I'm referring to their response to us humiliating them at the 2015 world cup and the hiring of Brendon McCullum as test coach.

Would much prefer that kind of attitude instead of the current atmosphere of managerialism in NZ Cricket. BMac should be leading us rather than Gary Stead, whose coaching is even less inspiring than his batting was.
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Baz would be good in terms of promoting young talent, but I'd worry that he'd be too close to some of the older heads in the team to make dispassionate decisions. I also don't know how he'd go without the massive technical support crew that he has at his disposal in the England camp. Seems very much like a 'big ideas' guy who farms out the implementation of those ideas to the people who know what they're doing.
 
Dick Rockett

Dick Rockett

International Vice-Captain
Bahnz said:
Baz would be good in terms of promoting young talent, but I'd worry that he'd be too close to some of the older heads in the team to make dispassionate decisions. I also don't know how he'd go without the massive technical support crew that he has at his disposal in the England camp. Seems very much like a 'big ideas' guy who farms out the implementation of those ideas to the people who know what they're doing.
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Fair points. Would be great to have him on board in the future but knowing NZ cricket it will depend on whether those in the big chairs like him personally or not.
 
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