*Official* England in India 2023/24 #CryMoreTour

[R!TTER]

Previous series have been played in November/December. Is there much difference in help given the dew factor for the more northerly games?

Yes, the last 2 series losses were in late autumn/winter (2004 & 2012) where pacers had swing/seam & definitely early morning conditions to aid their craft. Generally it's much harder to win in early Spring, we also don't play in Indian summers any more.

 

[Third_Man]

Explained: Why England Selected Tom Hartley Over Liam Dawson For The India Tests | IND Vs ENG

England selected Tom Hartley over Liam Dawson for their Test series in India in January. Find out why here.

wisden.com

Supposedly yeah and I suspect the interviews where he said he would not be sure if he would accept a call up if it clashed with his t20 deals didn't help him either.

Doesn't age well, this bit:

“Liam Dawson didn’t make himself unavailable for this trip at all,” said Key. “Again, Liam Dawson is probably not someone that wants to go around India as the 15th or 16th man. If he’s going to play and he’s going to feature then he’s someone that wants to do that. But if he’s not, then I don’t think that’s high on his agenda to be going as effectively a replacement bowler. So that’s where we ended up with Liam Dawson… We also feel, for the style of bowling, someone like Hartley, our bet is that he’ll be a real handful out there and you’ve obviously got Leach to lead the attack with the ball.

 

[Ashes81]

England didn't lose this test because of the toss but it was a small factor in that loss.

The toss didn't cause our 1st innings batting collapse but it was nevertheless a handy toss to win.

 

[OverratedSanity]

Just sounds like a team full of forum posters.

Damn, imagine we get a gambhiring test captain one day.

"Rohit, you're 2-0 up in this test series with two innings wins and England don't have half their best bowlers for the last three tests. How do you feel right now?"

"I don't know Ravi, England look fantastic and we've had some good fortune so far. It's only a matter of time till our luck runs out. I wish I could say we have the personnel to win this series but we don't. I'd like to take this opportunity to congratulate Ben for their fantastic series win coming in a couple of weeks "

 

[RossTaylorsBox]

Oh God imagine a captain who says "Leave Jimmy Out of the Oval" every time someone asks about who's in the squad.

 

[Molehill]

Doesn't age well, this bit:

“Liam Dawson didn’t make himself unavailable for this trip at all,” said Key. “Again, Liam Dawson is probably not someone that wants to go around India as the 15th or 16th man. If he’s going to play and he’s going to feature then he’s someone that wants to do that. But if he’s not, then I don’t think that’s high on his agenda to be going as effectively a replacement bowler. So that’s where we ended up with Liam Dawson… We also feel, for the style of bowling, someone like Hartley, our bet is that he’ll be a real handful out there and you’ve obviously got Leach to lead the attack with the ball.

To be fair, Hartley did bowl us to victory in the First Test - I don't think any of us could've predicted that.

But Dawson should never have been a drinks carrier.

 

[Silver Silva]

Doesn't age well, this bit:

“Liam Dawson didn’t make himself unavailable for this trip at all,” said Key. “Again, Liam Dawson is probably not someone that wants to go around India as the 15th or 16th man. If he’s going to play and he’s going to feature then he’s someone that wants to do that. But if he’s not, then I don’t think that’s high on his agenda to be going as effectively a replacement bowler. So that’s where we ended up with Liam Dawson… We also feel, for the style of bowling, someone like Hartley, our bet is that he’ll be a real handful out there and you’ve obviously got Leach to lead the attack with the ball.

I feel Key is speaking a half truth. There is no way Dawson would not have played if he made the squad , Key must have sold the idea to Dawson that he would just be a drinks carrier instead of an important member of the squad

 

[Shri]

Previous series have been played in November/December. Is there much difference in help given the dew factor for the more northerly games?

winter dew starts about early to mid november, starts to reduce from mid feb and goes away from mid late march

we used to play test series at home sometimes in july back in the day when every day existence is summer is painful let alone sport

 

[Red_Ink_Squid]

Just sounds like a team full of forum posters.

"Ben, that was a pretty bad session of play for you, with wickets tumbling constantly. How hard was it to watch that as captain?"

"Not as bad as your face."

 

[R!TTER]

I wouldn't mind a few tests in summer with Pinkish ball - how about start play around 4 to 4:30 till midnight & host games up north? D/N tests in the traditional Ranji season just have too much help at night time, also fcuk WTC it's just another BS money swindling scheme by ICC with very little structure! This BS reason of making result oriented strips for WTC holds no water as series wins will always trump that spot in the final at a "neutral" venue

 

[GIMH]

Doesn't age well, this bit:

“Liam Dawson didn’t make himself unavailable for this trip at all,” said Key. “Again, Liam Dawson is probably not someone that wants to go around India as the 15th or 16th man. If he’s going to play and he’s going to feature then he’s someone that wants to do that. But if he’s not, then I don’t think that’s high on his agenda to be going as effectively a replacement bowler. So that’s where we ended up with Liam Dawson… We also feel, for the style of bowling, someone like Hartley, our bet is that he’ll be a real handful out there and you’ve obviously got Leach to lead the attack with the ball.

Would Dawson have been putting up better numbers than Hartley?

 

[Chin Music]

winter dew starts about early to mid november, starts to reduce from mid feb and goes away from mid late march

we used to play test series at home sometimes in july back in the day when every day existence is summer is painful let alone sport

It is pretty damn hot from later March onwards. I was at the Mumbai test in March 2006 and it was way hotter than the 2 tests I went to in 2012 and 2016 respectively. Mumbai of course is way more southerly than say Delhi, Chandigarh etc.

Can't possibly imagine a test from April onwards in India until say October.

 

[social]

Would Dawson have been putting up better numbers than Hartley?

Probably not as Hartley has been one of the successes of the series with bat & ball

Also better for England’s future

 

[GIMH]

Probably not as Hartley has been one of the successes of the series with bat & ball

Also better for England’s future

Yeah this is my thinking.

I expect our attack for the first Test of the English summer to be three of Woakes, Anderson, Wood, Robinson and then Hartley as the spinner batting at 9 (or 8 if Woakes isn’t playing)

 

[CricAddict]

I do think Dawson would have been better than Hartley both with bat and ball. I am happy that Hartley is playing here instead of him.

 

[wpdavid]

Yeah this is my thinking.

I expect our attack for the first Test of the English summer to be three of Woakes, Anderson, Wood, Robinson and then Hartley as the spinner batting at 9 (or 8 if Woakes isn’t playing)

I don't see the Jimmy debate becoming any easier over the next six months or so. If he struggles again in the next two tests, they won't count as they're in India. I don't remember the justification for his returns in the Ashes; maybe just written off as one of those things. And our home tests this summer may not tell us much as our visitors should provide respectable figures as they're two of the weaker batting line-ups in test cricket. I'd actually prefer him to call it a day before his age becomes an even bigger factor that I think it is now. Bring in Potts maybe. But I know that others will differ. As long as nobody says that Jimmy should be allowed to call it a day when it suits him.

 

[GIMH]

He was excellent in the 2nd Test here though, I am not sure the one just gone tells us anything?

 

[wpdavid]

He was excellent in the 2nd Test here though, I am not sure the one just gone tells us anything?

Not in isolation, although Siraj managed to get something out of the conditions in Rajkot. But no, I'm looking at a bigger picture than just one test, and he was largely ineffective last summer.

 

[Chin Music]

Not in isolation, although Siraj managed to get something out of the conditions in Rajkot. But no, I'm looking at a bigger picture than just one test, and he was largely ineffective last summer.

Up to a point, you have to say that the Indian batting in the test just gone was markedly better than England's. I will defend up to a point all the specialist batsmen who are not Root or Bairstow but even then, man for man the opposition have been a lot better. That's before you get to the bowling where Bumrah is clearly in a league of his own and then the obvious difference in spin quality, which was always going to be a factor.

 

[wpdavid]

Up to a point, you have to say that the Indian batting in the test just gone was markedly better than England's. I will defend up to a point all the specialist batsmen who are not Root or Bairstow but even then, man for man the opposition have been a lot better. That's before you get to the bowling where Bumrah is clearly in a league of his own and then the obvious difference in spin quality, which was always going to be a factor.

Yeah, I'm not criticising any of our seamers for not being as good as Bumrah was in the 2nd test. And Jimmy did bowl pretty well there anyway.

This next bit's tricky, but I think we need to be a bit strategic about our choice of seamers over the next couple of years, what with Wood and Woakes being 34 and 35 during this summer's tests, as well as Anderson turning 42 in July. Obviously if someone is clearly better than younger alternatives, then he plays. But if it's 50/50, then I think we should get the younger bloke in and develop him at international level.