Overrated by CW XI and Underrated by CW XI

[ma1978]

So Englands only ATG batsman since Hutton is a fraud

Nothing fraudulent about Joe Root

 

[ataraxia]

Nothing fraudulent about Joe Root

No, nothing, nothing at all...

 

[Chin Music]

I am a fan of 90s openers. Batting top 3 in a bowling era is brutal. Particularly if you have a harsh opposition schedule.

On here, I would think very few agree with my opinion that Kirsten is a similar level to Graeme Smith. Ditto Pujara being a similar level to Sehwag.

Alec Stewart was better than Cook against pace, but Cook's heroics in Asia drag him ahead overall.

Atherton obviously wasn't great, but he was certainly better than Andrew Strauss and deserved a better average than 38. The distribution of attacks he faced over the course of his career was genuinely hellish and his debilitating back condition exaceprated his decline.

Have always been a great lover of Anwar but he definitely gets his plaudits on here and he did have a very short career as already pointed out.

Love Michael's Slater batting highlights reels.

Alec Stewart averaged something like 45/46 without the gloves. Much underrated when he had to be the man for all seasons under Ray Illingworth. He struggled against spin however for much of his career, which obviously Cook didn't. I would have said there was a very significant gap between Stewart's ability to play world class pace over Cook.

 

[BazBall21]

Alec Stewart averaged something like 45/46 without the gloves. Much underrated when he had to be the man for all seasons under Ray Illingworth. He struggled against spin however for much of his career, which obviously Cook didn't. I would have said there was a very significant gap between Stewart's ability to play world class pace over Cook.

Averaged 44 batting top 3, that rose to 46 without the gloves.
Stewart was the only opener who sustained an average of above 40 against WI throughout the 90s. Those Barbados hundreds were masterful. He was outstanding against Wasim/Waqar as well. Don't see Cook matching those feats.

 

[Chin Music]

Averaged 44 batting top 3, that rose to 46 without the gloves.
Stewart was the only opener who sustained an average of above 40 against WI throughout the 90s. Those Barbados hundreds were masterful. He was outstanding against Wasim/Waqar as well. Don't see Cook matching those feats.

I would tend to suggest that Cook's 3 tons in India 2012 were in the same bracket albeit at a pinch I would say that those bowlers Stewart succeeded against were true world class bowlers, something India's weren't back at the time, although Ashwin and Jadeja (who was very new to test cricket then) would later become so.

 

[BazBall21]

I would tend to suggest that Cook's 3 tons in India 2012 were in the same bracket albeit at a pinch I would say that those bowlers he succeeded against were true world class bowlers, something India's weren't back at the time, although Ashwin and Jadeja (who was very new to test cricket then) would later become so.

Yeah it's fair to say Stewart equally isn't emulating Cook's 2012 tour of India. Cook also has a hundred against Murali in Galle.
Big fan of Alec as he was definitely the better player of pace but he probably needed a bit more good work against spin to go past Cook. England hardly ever played in Asia during his career though.

 

[Chin Music]

Yeah it's fair to say Stewart equally isn't emulating Cook's 2012 tour of India. Cook also has a hundred against Murali in Galle.
Big fan of Alec as he was definitely the better player of pace but he probably needed a bit more good work against spin to go past Cook. England hardly ever played in Asia during his career though.

Yeah, they didn't play India after 1993 debacle until circa 2001 and no Pakistan until 2005 (edit, I forgot the 2000 tour doh!

 

[BazBall21]

Yeah, they didn't play India after 1993 debacle until circa 2001 and no Pakistan until 2005.

They went to Pakistan in 2001. Stewart was past his best by then.

 

[Chin Music]

They went to Pakistan in 2001. Stewart was past his best by then.

Yep, I forgot Karachi in the dark for a moment and realised my mistake. Even so, there is a good case that as a specialist bat, Stewart was on a level with Cook.

 

[BazBall21]

Yep, I forgot Karachi in the dark for a moment and realised my mistake. Even so, there is a good case that as a specialist bat, Stewart was on a level with Cook.

If they're both opening against a strong side, I'd probably take Stewart.

 

[Johan]

Overrated XI
Alastair Cook
Graeme Smith
Jacques Kallis
Younis Khan
Javed Miandad
Allan Border
Les Ames (WK)
Ravindra Jadeja
Jim Laker
Wasim Akram
Waqar Younis

Underrated XI
Geoffrey Boycott
Herbert Sutcliffe
Neil Harvey
Victor Trumper
Denis Compton
Clyde Walcott (WK)
Aubrey Faulkner
Lance Gibbs
Fazal Mahmood
Michael Holding
Fred Trueman

 

[The Sean]

Underrated XI

Clyde Walcott (WK)

Walcott just got picked as the 'keeper for the All Time WI 1st XI, despite only 'keeping for 15 of his 44 Tests. I don't think he's underrated in that aspect, though I do think - and I feel the same way about Sangakkara - that he might be underrated as a specialist bat without the gloves.

 

[kyear2]

Overrated XI
Alastair Cook
Graeme Smith
Jacques Kallis
Younis Khan
Javed Miandad
Allan Border
Les Ames (WK)
Ravindra Jadeja
Jim Laker
Wasim Akram
Waqar Younis

Underrated XI
Geoffrey Boycott
Herbert Sutcliffe
Neil Harvey
Victor Trumper
Denis Compton
Clyde Walcott (WK)
Aubrey Faulkner
Lance Gibbs
Fazal Mahmood
Michael Holding
Fred Trueman

Only name I have an issue with from the over rated list is Kallis.

I've sometimes referred to his as the perfect cricketer, and he kinda is. He's batted and fielded at the premier position for each and one of only 3 legitimate ATG batsmen who can be an excellent 4th or 5th bowling option.
He's not listed by anyone as a top 10 player, despite being a top 15 batsman, top 10 slip and top 3 all rounder if all time, and doesn't get a sniff for AT teams.

Don't see how that's over rated. The rest I can live with, though about 2 of them wouldn't have made my list.

The underrated list. How is Sutcliffe underrated? Everyone thinks he's a top 4 opener and a couple gives him first AT team consideration. All that despite he wasn't rated anywhere close to the 3 H's when he actually played. A couple others that wouldn't have been my pick, but only Sutcliffe was egregious.

 

[kyear2]

Walcott just got picked as the 'keeper for the All Time WI 1st XI, despite only 'keeping for 15 of his 44 Tests. I don't think he's underrated in that aspect, though I do think - and I feel the same way about Sangakkara - that he might be underrated as a specialist bat without the gloves.

I agree with your sentiment, I would say he's underrated as a wicket keeper batsman only from the perspective of, that he would likely match the production of a Gilchrist in an AT scenario but it isn't looked at like that.

 

[Coronis]

Only name I have an issue with from the over rated list is Kallis.

I've sometimes referred to his as the perfect cricketer, and he kinda is. He's batted and fielded at the premier position for each and one of only 3 legitimate ATG batsmen who can be an excellent 4th or 5th bowling option.
He's not listed by anyone as a top 10 player, despite being a top 15 batsman, top 10 slip and top 3 all rounder if all time, and doesn't get a sniff for AT teams.

Don't see how that's over rated. The rest I can live with, though about 2 of them wouldn't have made my list.

The underrated list. How is Sutcliffe underrated? Everyone thinks he's a top 4 opener and a couple gives him first AT team consideration. All that despite he wasn't rated anywhere close to the 3 H's when he actually played. A couple others that wouldn't have been my pick, but only Sutcliffe was egregious.

Even you?

But tbh I was shocked @Johan didn’t select Gooch

 

[Johan]

Even you?

But tbh I was shocked @Johan didn’t select Gooch

I was quite shocked too when I found myself thinking Geoffrey gets more underrated than Graham

 

[Cricket Bliss]

Overrated XI
Alastair Cook
Graeme Smith
Jacques Kallis
Younis Khan
Javed Miandad
Allan Border
Les Ames (WK)
Ravindra Jadeja
Jim Laker
Wasim Akram
Waqar Younis

Underrated XI
Geoffrey Boycott
Herbert Sutcliffe
Neil Harvey
Victor Trumper
Denis Compton
Clyde Walcott (WK)
Aubrey Faulkner
Lance Gibbs
Fazal Mahmood
Michael Holding
Fred Trueman

Could never call Kallis overrated unless Tendulkar - Zaheer comparison kicks in

Kallis had spicy home pitches and also is successful in the dusty sub continent tracks... consistency is unparalleled by none other than Tendulkar maybe. Also till 2003 at his peak with the ball averaged 29 and also ranked no.6 at best. One of the finest slip fielders ever who rarely drops any catch. 23 Man of the Matches and 9 Man of the Series awards definitely makes him one of the best.

Although not in this list felt that Bert Ironmonger is the most underrated. Averages 17.97 in the flatest era of Test Cricket...WPM 5.28 that too playing alongside Grimmett and O'Rielly and achieveing all these as a finger spinner without the spinning finger.

 

[Bolo.]

Only name I have an issue with from the over rated list is Kallis.

I've sometimes referred to his as the perfect cricketer, and he kinda is. He's batted and fielded at the premier position for each and one of only 3 legitimate ATG batsmen who can be an excellent 4th or 5th bowling option.
He's not listed by anyone as a top 10 player, despite being a top 15 batsman, top 10 slip and top 3 all rounder if all time, and doesn't get a sniff for AT teams.

Don't see how that's over rated. The rest I can live with, though about 2 of them wouldn't have made my list.

The underrated list. How is Sutcliffe underrated? Everyone thinks he's a top 4 opener and a couple gives him first AT team consideration. All that despite he wasn't rated anywhere close to the 3 H's when he actually played. A couple others that wouldn't have been my pick, but only Sutcliffe was egregious.

I enjoy the irony of referring to Kallis as a perfect cricketer as a defence against him being labelled overrated.

 

[PlayerComparisons]

Yea I wouldn’t call Kallis overrated or Boycott underrated personally

 

[Cricket Bliss]

Some of these are good, just overrated. Some are real spuds

Overrated XI

Sunil Gavaskar
Geoff Boycott
Younis Khan
Everton Weekes
Ken Barrington
Keith Miller
Shakib al Hasan
BJ Watling
Joel Garner
Dennis Lillee
Bill O'Reilly

Underrated XI

Graham Gooch
Virender Sehwag
Ricky Pointing
Javed Miandad
David Gower
Steve Waugh
Alan Knott
Sir Richard Hadlee
Shaun Pollock
Ravichandran Ashwin
Fred Trueman

Gavaskar overrated? he is arguably the third greatest opener and at best makes 9th/10th best batsmen of all time. Barring Lanka averages 40+ everywhere...means he wasn't a failure anywhere unlike many other batsmen who atleast has 1 or 2 countries where they average in the 30s.

Felt Boycott is underrated... averages 45+ everywhere apart from New Zealand were he was a failure...how many openers average 45+ in 6 countries? Also add an average of 43 for an opener from age 37-41.

Dennis Lillee... is regarded outside top 10 bowlers here mainly...I would call that underrated and not overrated.