subshakerz
International Coach
Serious yes that Lara is behind for this reason.
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Garry Sobers v Imran Khan,Test Cricket:Poll
- Thread starter Teja.
- Start date
honestbharani
Whatever it takes!!!
He is being serious for our **** and giggles.
centurymaker
Cricketer Of The Year
2 things that give Tendulkar an edge over Lara
1) Lara and Tendulkar ended with similar figures but Lara's career is 2/3rds compared to Tendulkar. 131 tests (16 yrs) vs 200 tests (24 yrs).
2) Tendulkar's away record.
Besides that, there's not much in it.
1) Lara and Tendulkar ended with similar figures but Lara's career is 2/3rds compared to Tendulkar. 131 tests (16 yrs) vs 200 tests (24 yrs).
2) Tendulkar's away record.
Besides that, there's not much in it.
Slifer
International Captain
What Subs fails to appreciate are the differing career trajectories for different atgs. Case in point Lara and Sachin. Sachin started off ordinary, and gradually worked his way up to greatness then tailed off towards the end. Lara started off great hit an ordinary patch then ended great. Sobers started off ordinary hit greatness and then tailed off to the end. Smith: started off ordinary hit greatness and appears to be tailing off to being ordinary but his is still a work in progress. Different trajectories but all still great. But I guess Lara is the only one who had a slump and only Lara had a slump and that took away his greatness somehow.
Hey Subs apart from scoring 100s vs the WWs and Donald, name me one accomplishment Sachin managed that Lara didn't. As a matter of fact, name me any accomplishment any other 2nd after Bradman accomplished that Lara didn't. And I mean during the years their careers overlapped. Go on.....
Hey Subs apart from scoring 100s vs the WWs and Donald, name me one accomplishment Sachin managed that Lara didn't. As a matter of fact, name me any accomplishment any other 2nd after Bradman accomplished that Lara didn't. And I mean during the years their careers overlapped. Go on.....
Slifer
International Captain
This and only this for me.
smash84
The Tiger King
You can't have it both ways. You're comparing entire careers and then chopping off the part for Tendulkar where he was ordinary while keeping the part where Lara was ordinary. When evaluating whole careers you can't chop off the end of one.
If anything, its easy to argue that Lara was able to go into a slump that would have ended most ATG careers, but he returned and was as good as anybody ever.
subshakerz
International Coach
I don't mind different career paths. I don't even mind Lara having a mid career slump.
My point has always been the degree to which he was bad in that slump and how less forgiveable it was compared to dips of other top tiers.
Tendulkar's overall record and longevity get him the nod over Lara. Plus a better technique.
Adorable Asshole
International Regular
Lol. You literally did the opposite
subshakerz
International Coach
Bhai, I am contextualizing each slump. It is silly to compare Tendulkar struggling in 2012 with Lara struggling in 1997 and conclude they are equally representative of weaknesses in their batsmenships.
Except that slump was largely the product of his own poor professionalism. And posters here tend to ignore that slump altogether in their assessment of Lara, it's mostly his highlights. They forget that he was that bad.
subshakerz
International Coach
Yeah it was how bad he was in that slump which is the main problem. He nearly lost his ATG title.
Coronis
Cricketer Of The Year
fwiw of the batsmen who are generally considered here in contention for that tier below Bradman. (chronologically ordered)
Hobbs: 52.29 home, 59.91 away (hardest home conditions?)
Sobers: 66.80 home, 50.73 away
Richards: 49.77 home, 50.50 away
Sachin: 52.67 home, 54.74 away
Smith: 64.51 home, 54.21 away (easiest home conditions?)
Lara: 58.65 home, 47.80 away
West Indies generally seems an easy place to bat, apart from Richards and Lloyd almost every great West Indian bat has a vastly superior home record.
Interestingly all of the listed batsman have played more away than at home, unlike Bradman.
Hobbs: 52.29 home, 59.91 away (hardest home conditions?)
Sobers: 66.80 home, 50.73 away
Richards: 49.77 home, 50.50 away
Sachin: 52.67 home, 54.74 away
Smith: 64.51 home, 54.21 away (easiest home conditions?)
Lara: 58.65 home, 47.80 away
West Indies generally seems an easy place to bat, apart from Richards and Lloyd almost every great West Indian bat has a vastly superior home record.
Interestingly all of the listed batsman have played more away than at home, unlike Bradman.
subshakerz
International Coach
Honestly, Lara's away record is not that impressive.
Adorable Asshole
International Regular
Probably Sobers imo.
That only makes the WI bowling greats even better than they already are.
Adorable Asshole
International Regular
But neither is Sobers
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
Bradman may have wished it were otherwise, given all the away Tests he did get to play were at the home of his strongest opposition in the most difficult batting conditions, and he still averaged more away than at home!
subshakerz
International Coach
His is fine except for NZ who are irrelevant.
Adorable Asshole
International Regular
Just like your face
kyear2
Cricketer Of The Year
I slept through most of this discussion this morning, but here's my two cents worth.
Most of us accept that Sachin is the better batsman, I wouldn't contest or argue that, Sachin was better. Yes Lara had his slump, and most of that was his own doing, he frequently fought with the board and at times team, but I'm not offering any excuses for it.
But at the end of al of it he ended up with a similar record, which means despite Sachin's consistency and the slight but tangible boost with facing the minnows a bit more, they ended up at basically the same average. Despite those 47 tests he earned near parity. What does that say about the rest of his career, the stupid heights that he reached, the absolute dominance his displayed that no other batsman ever did. No batsman can do what he did against 3 of the absolute greatest bowlers of all time and not be included in the pantheon. Plus when most batsmen were in a rut, they didn't have to face WWs, white lightning and McWarne.
I think he deserves credit for how he was able to bounce back and remind the world who the **** he was. If you want to place him last in the tier, fine, but he belongs there.
And if end of careers don't count, then let's add Ponting as well, because damn, there were times he was better than both.
Most of us accept that Sachin is the better batsman, I wouldn't contest or argue that, Sachin was better. Yes Lara had his slump, and most of that was his own doing, he frequently fought with the board and at times team, but I'm not offering any excuses for it.
But at the end of al of it he ended up with a similar record, which means despite Sachin's consistency and the slight but tangible boost with facing the minnows a bit more, they ended up at basically the same average. Despite those 47 tests he earned near parity. What does that say about the rest of his career, the stupid heights that he reached, the absolute dominance his displayed that no other batsman ever did. No batsman can do what he did against 3 of the absolute greatest bowlers of all time and not be included in the pantheon. Plus when most batsmen were in a rut, they didn't have to face WWs, white lightning and McWarne.
I think he deserves credit for how he was able to bounce back and remind the world who the **** he was. If you want to place him last in the tier, fine, but he belongs there.
And if end of careers don't count, then let's add Ponting as well, because damn, there were times he was better than both.
shortpitched713
International Captain
To me, attacking batsmen are the ones who really carry on the legacy of Bradman, and are worthy of the BBB claim. These men would completely take the game away from their opponents. That's why my top 5 includes all of Sobers, Weekes, and Lara (Bradman too obviously), with Steve Smith being the only exception of the five for not scoring particularly faster with a more aggressive approach than the modern standard.
The hallmark of this trancsendent talent is that he looks like he's taking too much risk in his strokeplay, and that a wicket could be around the corner, but in actuality he's tough as **** to get out. Out of all of these aggresive batsmen, Sobers has the longest and most impressive career which simply cannot be written off. In fact I'd say there is something of another parallel with Bradmen, in that their careers spanned multiple eras in which the quality of opposition and bowling improved markedly, but their own batting performance did not really decline. This is not really a normal occurence, and for this reason I think it's very reasonable to put Sobers as the BBB. All depending for me though, on how Steve Smith's career shakes out at the end, but regardless Sobers is a standout candidate for mine, especially before Steve Smith was in the picture.
The hallmark of this trancsendent talent is that he looks like he's taking too much risk in his strokeplay, and that a wicket could be around the corner, but in actuality he's tough as **** to get out. Out of all of these aggresive batsmen, Sobers has the longest and most impressive career which simply cannot be written off. In fact I'd say there is something of another parallel with Bradmen, in that their careers spanned multiple eras in which the quality of opposition and bowling improved markedly, but their own batting performance did not really decline. This is not really a normal occurence, and for this reason I think it's very reasonable to put Sobers as the BBB. All depending for me though, on how Steve Smith's career shakes out at the end, but regardless Sobers is a standout candidate for mine, especially before Steve Smith was in the picture.
Adorable Asshole
International Regular
Weekes lol.