Which Indian team wins in India?

[subshakerz]

Still didn't win as much though. So they suck, easy win for Kohli's side.

Kohli's side faced poorer teams generally at home. India 2000s faced every side with at least a couple of ATGs.

 

[Xix2565]

Are you actually arguing that the top/middle order under kohli is as good as the one under Dhoni in 2007-2011? I will not bother going through the numbers because if I point out their superior averages you're going to write it off as being because of flat decks.

I think the same standards of evaluation aren't applied to both, so if there is an argument that isn't anecdotes or wishful thinking I'd love to hear it, on both the batting and bowling comparisons. Flat decks is only a response to the level of posts here.

 

[Xix2565]

Kohli's side faced poorer teams generally at home. India 2000s faced every side with at least a couple of ATGs.

India didn't have the best side for most of that period in the 2000s, unlike the 2010s.

 

[subshakerz]

India didn't have the best side for most of that period in the 2000s, unlike the 2010s.

You are deflecting.

India in the 2000s had most of the team mentioned in the OP. Yeah they didn't have the best side because their competition was much better.

Look at the SL, SA, Eng, Aus, and WI sides that Kohli beat at home and compare them to the 2000s versions who were far superior.

So bringing up Kohli's team padded home record is a non-point.

 

[Xix2565]

You are deflecting.

India in the 2000s had most of the team mentioned in the OP. Yeah they didn't have the best side because their competition was much better.

Look at the SL, SA, Eng, Aus, and WI sides that Kohli beat at home and compare them to the 2000s versions who were far superior.

So bringing up Kohli's team padded home record is a non-point.

I think it's a bigger credit to actually be a top team than middle of the pack, even if we're debating the best of both sides.

 

[subshakerz]

I think it's a bigger credit to actually be a top team than middle of the pack, even if we're debating the best of both sides.

India in the 2000s weren't middle of the pack, they were a top tier team and mostly at no.2, and eventually no.1 once the ATG Aussies passed on.

Kohli's team built their home reputation bullying hapless touring teams with no quality spinners, until a better-than-average Aussie side nearly beat them in 2017.

Now you want us to believe they will 'easily' beat an Indian side with twin spinners of similar quality and a clearly superior batting lineup.

 

[trundler]

The latter Indian side wouldn't have been #1 if it had switched places with the 2000s Indian side so how is being #1 in an era without a clearly ATG side a point in its favour?

 

[Daemon]

I'm on the 00s side on this one, but the below is just not true

No you want us to believe they will 'easily' beat an Indian side with twin spinners of similar quality

Bhajji was pretty rubbish. Just looked it up and he wasn't even deemed good enough to play all the tests against England in 2012/13.

Kohli's team built their home reputation bullying hapless touring teams with no quality spinners, until a better-than-average Aussie side nearly beat them in 2017.

Herath was owned by India a couple of times under Kohli in that period. When he toured India in 17/18 he took 1 wicket in 3 innings.

 

[CricAddict]

Let us just say that it will be a drawn series. Everyone goes home happy since India did not lose.

 

[Daemon]

Let us just say that it will be a drawn series. Everyone goes home happy since India did not lose.

Does India retain the trophy though?

 

[subshakerz]

Bhajji was pretty rubbish. Just looked it up and he wasn't even deemed good enough to play all the tests against England in 2012/13.

I would put Bhajji behind the others overall but we are talking about spin conditions in which Harmer, Imran Tahir and O'Keefe become threats to Kohli's side. In such conditions Bhajji becomes far more dangerous.

Herath was owned by India a couple of times under Kohli in that period. When he toured India in 17/18 he took 1 wicket in 3 innings.

Credit to Kohli's team for beating Herath then, he would be the exception as you have lesser spinners regularly have high return series against Kohli's team based on the pitches.

 

[BazBall21]

Team Kohli

 

[Xix2565]

India in the 2000s weren't middle of the pack, they were a top tier team and mostly at no.2, and eventually no.1 once the ATG Aussies passed on.

Kohli's team built their home reputation bullying hapless touring teams with no quality spinners, until a better-than-average Aussie side nearly beat them in 2017.

Now you want us to believe they will 'easily' beat an Indian side with twin spinners of similar quality and a clearly superior batting lineup.

I'm still waiting for more than fancy words, because this argument can be turned around easily for the other side of this debate. It's still belief vs belief at this point, nothing to do with looking at the data.

 

[subshakerz]

I'm still waiting for more than fancy words, because this argument can be turned around easily for the other side of this debate. It's still belief vs belief at this point, nothing to do with looking at the data.

Here are some of the returns for touring spinners during Kohli's time. Feel free to see if you can find any list comparable of spinners in the 2000s who toured.

If mostly average spinners can do this well against their batting I am fairly confident that Kumble and Harbi are going to regularly tear through Kohli's bunch.

- Lyon 19 wickets@25 and 22 wickets @22
- Tahir 14 wickets @21
- Harmer 10 wickets@25
- O Keefe 19 wickets @23
- Leach 18 wickets @28
- Murphy 14 wickets @25
- Patel 17 wickets @22

 

[Xix2565]

Here are some of the returns for touring spinners during Kohli's time. Feel free to see if you can find any list comparable of spinners in the 2000s who toured.

If mostly average spinners can do this well against their batting I am fairly confident that Kumble and Harbi are going to regularly tear through Kohli's bunch.

- Lyon 19 wickets@25 and 22 wickets @22
- Tahir 14 wickets @21
- Harmer 10 wickets@25
- O Keefe 19 wickets @23
- Leach 18 wickets @28
- Murphy 14 wickets @25
- Patel 17 wickets @22

This just shows spinners taking wickets at a decent average. Says jack **** about the quality of either team in this thread.

 

[subshakerz]

This just shows spinners taking wickets at a decent average. Says jack **** about the quality of either team in this thread.

Those spin performances are all against Kohli's team in the period in question. It tells a lot about their batting quality against spin. It was pretty standard for even an average spinner to post a threat to Kohli's order.

 

[Xix2565]

Those spin performances are all against Kohli's team in the period in question. It tells a lot about their batting quality against spin. It was pretty standard for even an average spinner to post a threat to Kohli's order.

It says nothing about quality, more so about the conditions. Again, trying to stretch when you can't to make up a point. The rest is just junk from a faulty assumption.

 

[Adorable Asshole]

Here are some of the returns for touring spinners during Kohli's time. Feel free to see if you can find any list comparable of spinners in the 2000s who toured.

If mostly average spinners can do this well against their batting I am fairly confident that Kumble and Harbi are going to regularly tear through Kohli's bunch.

- Lyon 19 wickets@25 and 22 wickets @22
- Tahir 14 wickets @21
- Harmer 10 wickets@25
- O Keefe 19 wickets @23
- Leach 18 wickets @28
- Murphy 14 wickets @25
- Patel 17 wickets @22

What's Moenn Ali's stats?

 

[subshakerz]

It says nothing about quality, more so about the conditions. Again, trying to stretch when you can't to make up a point. The rest is just junk from a faulty assumption.

Well if conditions can give these guys such figures, then imagine what Kumble and Harbi would do.

 

[subshakerz]

What's Moenn Ali's stats?

10 wickets @ 64 in 2016 and 8 wickets @28 in a single test in 20/21.