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Is Shivnarine Chanderpaul an ATG test batsman?

Is Shivnarine Chanderpaul an ATG test batsman?

  • Total voters
    38
ZK$

ZK$

U19 Cricketer
I think analysis by checklist is fine if you’re trying to split players in the same tier. I wouldn’t use it to determine if someone was an ATG though.
 
Slifer

Slifer

International Captain
ZK$ said:
I think analysis by checklist is fine if you’re trying to split players in the same tier. I wouldn’t use it to determine if someone was an ATG though.
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Agreed. Like in a Lara vs Sachin, I rate Sachin slightly above because he's a better traveler. Overall, Shiv is probably a great but atg ie likely to make a atg wi eleven and on the short list of world XIs he is not.
 
ZK$

ZK$

U19 Cricketer
I think Chanderpaul is underrated tbh. He had his flaws, but he was an incredible player. I think he’d be rated higher if he played for like Australia or England.
 
CricketFan90s

CricketFan90s

First Class Debutant
Chanderpaul was an ATG almost equal to Lara in West Indies with an Avg of 58+ and in overseas he did not perform well in Australia with just an Avg of 30 but did significantly better than Lara in England and India.
 
Slifer

Slifer

International Captain
CricketFan90s said:
Chanderpaul was an ATG almost equal to Lara in West Indies with an Avg of 58+ and in overseas he did not perform well in Australia with just an Avg of 30 but did significantly better than Lara in England and India.
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Quantitively yes but qualitively no. Lara would've averagedwithout looking )around 60 odd vs Australia at home and in all but two tests Lara came up against the best fast bowler of all time: Sir Glenn. Against Pakistan Lara averages 50 + including 43 vs Waqar and Wasim. Against Donald and Pollock 40 I believe. Contrast this, with the Nels, Ntinis, and other lesser bowlers Shiv would've faced. Shiv and Lara should never be mentioned in the same breath. Nope.
 
CricketFan90s

CricketFan90s

First Class Debutant
Slifer said:
Quantitively yes but qualitively no. Lara would've averagedwithout looking )around 60 odd vs Australia at home and in all but two tests Lara came up against the best fast bowler of all time: Sir Glenn. Against Pakistan Lara averages 50 + including 43 vs Waqar and Wasim. Against Donald and Pollock 40 I believe. Contrast this, with the Nels, Ntinis, and other lesser bowlers Shiv would've faced. Shiv and Lara should never be mentioned in the same breath. Nope.
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I am not saying he is equal to Lara no way. I am saying that he is an ATG. Lara is a cream player who will be in any All Time XI but Chanderpaul is one of the best lower middle order batsmen in 2000s.
 
ataraxia

ataraxia

International Coach
ZK$ said:
I think analysis by checklist is fine if you’re trying to split players in the same tier. I wouldn’t use it to determine if someone was an ATG though.
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oh god no

this thread has well proved how nebulous the CW definition of ATG is and Chanderpaul certainly is in the same 'tier' as some 'ATGs' imo

Anyway anal by checklist is horrid plz destroy
 
ZK$

ZK$

U19 Cricketer
ataraxia said:
oh god no

this thread has well proved how nebulous the CW definition of ATG is and Chanderpaul certainly is in the same 'tier' as some 'ATGs' imo

Anyway anal by checklist is horrid plz destroy
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Why did you vote no then? If Chanderpaul is in the same tier as some ATGs, then shouldn’t that make him an ATG as well lol.
 
CricketFan90s

CricketFan90s

First Class Debutant
ZK$ said:
Why did you vote no then? If Chanderpaul is in the same tier as some ATGs, then shouldn’t that make him an ATG as well lol.
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He is inducted into ICC Hall of Fame. Played 164 Tests and 268 ODIs with an Avg of 51+ and 41+ not many players can achieve these numbers.
 
G

Godard

U19 Vice-Captain
I don’t think it is any wrong thing to say that a batsmen has to succeed at home and away to be an ATG, and because Chanderpaul(while not a failure by any rate away from home) still struggled in more than 2 major nations whilst playing in one of the easiest eras to bat. Now I’m not saying that this is a universal rule, and needs to be applied without looking at context. Sanga is an exceptional case(even he is in the third tier of ATGS for me, 1st being Tendy, Viv, Sobers etc, second being Gavaskar, Waugh, Border etc), since when he batted without being a keeper(sizeable portion of his career), he averaged some 69.86(also failed in one or two countries really). So he has insane peaks that Shiv never did.
 
CricketFan90s

CricketFan90s

First Class Debutant
Godard said:
I don’t think it is any wrong thing to say that a batsmen has to succeed at home and away to be an ATG, and because Chanderpaul(while not a failure by any rate away from home) still struggled in more than 2 major nations whilst playing in one of the easiest eras to bat. Now I’m not saying that this is a universal rule, and needs to be applied without looking at context. Sanga is an exceptional case(even he is in the third tier of ATGS for me, 1st being Tendy, Viv, Sobers etc, second being Gavaskar, Waugh, Border etc), since when he batted without being a keeper(sizeable portion of his career), he averaged some 69.86(also failed in one or two countries really). So he has insane peaks that Shiv never did.
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Sangakkara was better than Chanderpaul.
 
Coronis

Coronis

Cricketer Of The Year
Godard said:
I don’t think it is any wrong thing to say that a batsmen has to succeed at home and away to be an ATG, and because Chanderpaul(while not a failure by any rate away from home) still struggled in more than 2 major nations whilst playing in one of the easiest eras to bat. Now I’m not saying that this is a universal rule, and needs to be applied without looking at context. Sanga is an exceptional case(even he is in the third tier of ATGS for me, 1st being Tendy, Viv, Sobers etc, second being Gavaskar, Waugh, Border etc), since when he batted without being a keeper(sizeable portion of his career), he averaged some 69.86(also failed in one or two countries really). So he has insane peaks that Shiv never did.
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Shiv had a pretty decent peak.

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