Does Michael Atherton get a bad rap?

[Slifer]

I really don't think that list of bowlers is as strong as you make it out to be, especially when you barely have an attack for some teams. Overrating a bit here.

Huh? In '91 Athers faced Marshall, Ambrose, Walsh and Patrick Patterson in England. The series after vs Pakistan: Wasim, Waqar, Mushtaq, Aqib. '97 vs Australia: McWarne all 6 tests plus Gillespie, Refiel through most of the series. Every series vs RSA in the 90s there were always two of Donald, de Villiers and Pollock. Etc Barely have an attack? Research before making unfounded claims.

 

[Slifer]

John Wright - similar average to Atherton but better player

WI - Holding, Croft, Garner, Roberts, Marshall, Walsh,
Pak - Imran, Safraz, Qadir, Iqbal Qasim, Wasim,
Aus - Lillee, Thomson, Pascoe, Alderman, McDermott, Reid, Reiffel, Warne
Eng - Willis, Botham,
India - Kapil
SL - Murali

Murali of that time not the same as what Athers would have faced. And McWarne + Gillespie and co probably better than any Oz attack of Wright's time. Wi are awash but Athers would've faced them much more often. Still think in retrospect, Athers had it harder than almost any opener I can think of.

Openers playing now from WI or Pakistan would probably be in the same boat. Think about it. A Braithwaite would have to face:

India : Bumrah, Shami, Jadeja, Ashwin etc
NZ: Boult, Southee, Jamieson, Wagner
RSA: Rabada, Ngidi, Steyn, Philander, Morkel
Eng: Anderson, Broad
Aus: Cummins, Starc, Hazelwood
Etc.

And b4 another troll comment, I'm not saying Braithwaite is quality but openers now, do have it hard. And Braithwaite faced all those bowlers above.

 

[Xix2565]

Huh? In '91 Athers faced Marshall, Ambrose, Walsh and Patrick Patterson in England. The series after vs Pakistan: Wasim, Waqar, Mushtaq, Aqib. '97 vs Australia: McWarne all 6 tests plus Gillespie, Refiel through most of the series. Every series vs RSA in the 90s there were always two of Donald, de Villiers and Pollock. Etc Barely have an attack? Research before making unfounded claims.

Way to miss the ****ing point there. I really don't think you can say having only 4 good bowling attacks (vs England) is suddenly this hellscape for Atherton that he had to slug through for his runs, especially when you're only giving 1-2 names for some teams. You can do this for anyone, opener or not and hype them up to high heaven.

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

My enduring memories of Atherton are being at the ground when he was run out for 99 at Lord's and the recurring nightmare of the commentators saying that Atherton is the wicket the opposition want, only for him to be inevitably squared up by McGrath/Donald/AN Other opening bowler and edge to the keeper early doors.

 

[Slifer]

Way to miss the ****ing point there. I really don't think you can say having only 4 good bowling attacks (vs England) is suddenly this hellscape for Atherton that he had to slug through for his runs, especially when you're only giving 1-2 names for some teams. You can do this for anyone, opener or not and hype them up to high heaven.

Yes we can do this for quite a few players . But last time I checked, the op was about Atherton therefore he gets the spotlight for now. And nobody is hyping the damn man. No-one is all of a sudden saying he is top 10 among openers or any of that. But the man faced unrelenting quality attacks for pretty much all of his career. Let's pick a random contemporary, S Waugh. He faced similar bowling but missed out on playing McWarne, Reid etc. And opening (especially in Eng) is inherently harder than batting in the middle order.

 

[Coronis]

No-one is all of a sudden saying he is top 10 among openers or any of that.

Still better than Barry

 

[Prince EWS]

Way to miss the ****ing point there. I really don't think you can say having only 4 good bowling attacks (vs England) is suddenly this hellscape for Atherton that he had to slug through for his runs, especially when you're only giving 1-2 names for some teams. You can do this for anyone, opener or not and hype them up to high heaven.

When I standardised his average to take into account era standards and quality of opposition it actually went down from 37.70 to 37.12. I agree with suggestions he would've averaged 40+ if he played ten years later, but that's more because that era was particularly easy for batting (Hayden's average went from 50 to 44, for example) than his own circumstances being historically tough.

 

[Prince EWS]

But reality is, overall Trescothick, Strauss and Cook were far better and some people seem to dispute this.

Cook was definitely better but I think he's pretty comparable to Trescothick and Strauss. Vaughan in similar company too IMO.

 

[duffer]

Cook
Vaughan
Strauss
Athers= Tres

 

[_00_deathscar]

Way to miss the ****ing point there. I really don't think you can say having only 4 good bowling attacks (vs England) is suddenly this hellscape for Atherton that he had to slug through for his runs, especially when you're only giving 1-2 names for some teams. You can do this for anyone, opener or not and hype them up to high heaven.

He played 80% of his tests vs those 3 teams though

 

[The_CricketUmpire]

Imagine Mark Taylor opening nowdays. He averaged 43. He would be in the high 40s nowdays.

Bowling collectively isn't as good in Taylors/Athertons era as it is now

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Still better than Barry

Yes, better opener than McCullum but it is spelt Barrie in his case.

Athers is several tiers below Brichards though.

 

[Arachnodouche]

He opened to Ambrose home and away through the 90s in five-Test series. McGrath in at least three series in the 90s and then maybe one more thereafter. That's a good 40 Tests you'd imagine opening against arguably the two greatest fast bowlers of all time. **** if that's not a tough assignment. And then there's the rest of the lot...

I think 37's about right for what he faced and what he was capable of.

 

[The_CricketUmpire]

Michael Atherton, in at number 4. Good effort I reckon considering the type of bowlers collectively he faced....much better that period

Most Test Runs - 1990s


Most runs

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
AJ Stewart (ENG)	1990-1999	93	169	12	6407	190	40.80	13199	48.54	12	34	7	842	8
ME Waugh (AUS)	1991-1999	99	164	11	6371	153*	41.64	12267	51.93	17	37	15	636	34
MA Taylor (AUS)	1990-1999	93	166	12	6306	334*	40.94	15374	41.01	15	35	5	602	7
MA Atherton (ENG)	1990-1999	91	168	6	6217	185*	38.37	16480	37.72	13	38	18	727	3
SR Waugh (AUS)	1990-1999	89	143	26	6213	200	53.10	13181	47.13	18	28	11	636	7
SR Tendulkar (INDIA)	1990-1999	69	109	12	5626	217	58.00	10344+	54.28*	22	21	7	732+	27
BC Lara (WI)	1990-1999	65	112	4	5573	375	51.60	8982	62.04	13	29	4	773	29
PA de Silva (SL)	1990-1999	62	104	9	4448	267	46.82	8530+	52.00*	14	18	6	547+	33
MJ Slater (AUS)	1993-1999	58	103	5	4425	219	45.15	8406	52.64	13	16	9	481	26
DC Boon (AUS)	1990-1996	62	108	13	4303	164*	45.29	10758	39.99	13	18	11	474	1
GA Gooch (ENG)	1990-1995	45	83	2	4176	333	51.55	8190	50.98	12	17	3	521	16
IA Healy (AUS)	1990-1999	102	159	21	3949	161*	28.61	7863	50.22	4	21	15	389	5
M Azharuddin (INDIA)	1990-1999	64	94	6	3880	192	44.09	6302+	61.20*	14	12	3	476+	14
G Kirsten (SA)	1993-1999	56	100	9	3792	275	41.67	9185	41.28	10	18	8	485	4
Inzamam-ul-Haq (PAK)	1992-1999	58	97	11	3717	200*	43.22	7225	51.44	8	23	8	466	15
WJ Cronje (SA)	1992-1999	64	106	9	3689	135	38.03	8227	44.84	6	23	8	405	33
GP Thorpe (ENG)	1993-1999	57	105	13	3599	138	39.11	7793	46.18	6	24	8	436	1
RA Smith (ENG)	1990-1996	54	96	13	3538	175	42.62	7927	44.63	7	24	6	463	11
CL Hooper (WI)	1990-1999	64	110	12	3514	178*	35.85	6700	52.44	8	15	10	390	44
Saeed Anwar (PAK)	1990-1999	44	75	2	3366	188*	46.10	5890	57.14	9	21	8	449	10
DJ Cullinan (SA)	1993-1999	53	87	8	3354	275*	42.45	6681	50.20	9	16	10	416	13
Saleem Malik (PAK)	1990-1999	47	77	9	3126	237	45.97	6167	50.68	8	15	6	395	3
A Ranatunga (SL)	1990-1999	60	97	8	3074	131	34.53	6094+	49.73*	2	22	9	360+	26
GA Hick (ENG)	1991-1999	54	94	6	3005	178	34.14	6009	50.00	5	17	6	409	22
SP Fleming (NZ)	1994-1999	48	84	6	2984	174*	38.25	7116	41.93	2	23	7	372	8
HP Tillakaratne (SL)	1990-1999	55	89	14	2966	126*	39.54	7452+	39.06*	6	16	7	350	0
N Hussain (ENG)	1990-1999	45	81	8	2918	207	39.97	7345	39.72	8	13	9	365	8
Ijaz Ahmed (PAK)	1990-1999	44	71	4	2815	211	42.01	6096	46.17	11	10	5	354	19
Aamer Sohail (PAK)	1992-1998	45	79	3	2777	205	36.53	4960	55.98	5	13	4	378	8
ST Jayasuriya (SL)	1991-1999	44	74	9	2751	340	42.32	4273	64.38	5	14	9	349	21
R Dravid (INDIA)	1996-1999	34	58	4	2698	190	49.96	6958	38.77	6	16	1	325	3
AR Border (AUS)	1990-1994	45	73	11	2686	200*	43.32	6732	39.89	4	17	6	276	6
RB Richardson (WI)	1990-1995	41	70	5	2629	182	40.44	5323	49.38	6	14	5	348	19
A Flower (ZIM)	1992-1999	39	70	12	2580	156	44.48	6337	40.71	6	16	4	263	7
NS Sidhu (INDIA)	1990-1999	38	56	0	2517	201	44.94	5723	43.98	7	12	6	289	33
GS Blewett (AUS)	1995-1999	43	74	4	2483	214	35.47	5884	42.19	4	15	5	271	4
SC Ganguly (INDIA)	1996-1999	32	54	5	2432	173	49.63	5102	47.66	7	12	4	314	23
RS Mahanama (SL)	1990-1998	46	79	1	2333	225	29.91	5433+	42.03*	4	10	7	280+	2
JC Adams (WI)	1992-1999	39	63	12	2326	208*	45.60	5625	41.35	5	11	4	263	4
JN Rhodes (SA)	1992-1999	48	73	8	2321	117	35.70	5013	46.29	3	15	4	237	21
MD Crowe (NZ)	1990-1995	32	55	4	2317	299	45.43	4851	47.76	7	7	2	275	21
AC Parore (NZ)	1990-1999	58	98	10	2249	100*	25.55	5795	38.80	1	13	4	250	4
S Chanderpaul (WI)	1994-1999	37	62	7	2234	137*	40.61	5482	40.75	2	18

 

[HeathDavisSpeed]

Looking at those averages, about as good as Aamer Sohail feels about right. Better than a few on that list, not as good as most.

 

[duffer]

Omg, we didn't play enough Tests in the 90s. Sachin left a couple thousand runs on the table because Jamodis

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Imagine Mark Taylor opening nowdays. He averaged 43. He would be in the high 40s nowdays.

Bowling collectively isn't as good in Taylors/Athertons era as it is now

That makes no sense at all. If bowling in his era was worse than now, how would Taylor average more?

Taylor feasted on a dreadful England side in the 89 Ashes and subsequently was a fairly run of the mill player. If he hadn't been captain (and he was a very good one) he would've been dropped far earlier.

 

[Slifer]

That makes no sense at all. If bowling in his era was worse than now, how would Taylor average more?

Taylor feasted on a dreadful England side in the 89 Ashes and subsequently was a fairly run of the mill player. If he hadn't been captain (and he was a very good one) he would've been dropped far earlier.

I believe he misspoke...

 

[Howe_zat]

I don’t think it’s much harder to bat in that era than now, there was just a big shift to high scoring tests in the 2000s which made people pine for the previous decade for a bit. It’s pretty much back to normal over the last 10ish years.

 

[Prince EWS]

I don’t think it’s much harder to bat in that era than now, there was just a big shift to high scoring tests in the 2000s which made people pine for the previous decade for a bit. It’s pretty much back to normal over the last 10ish years.

I think it's more like the last 5 than the last 10, but yeah.

Older current players do have records that are influenced by easy batting conditions earlier in their careers though - particularly Australians and New Zealanders who enjoyed/endured some of the flattest home conditions in their countries for a century. To put out some bait, I think Cummins is a much better player than Smith due to this.