*Official* 2022 New Zealand Tour of England, Ireland, Scotland & Netherlands

[Moss]

Two words for the era described in the above posts: John Bracewell.

Anyhoo, I guess it’s a lot more even compared to the series last year when NZ could rest five first choice players and still win.

NZ obviously stronger on paper, but the batting is in a weird place, and bowling wise Wagner and Jamieson both don’t seem to be at the level they were a year ago.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

I think the preparation is quite decent. Better than on many tours, so no excuses on that front. The big thing imo is hunger. The hunger to reach the WTC final may be gone as it looks unlikely, but winning another series in England and producing top performances should be motivation enough. Can KJ and Conway push on to be in ATG conversations in 5 years? Can Kane conquer Jimmy? Can Latham score runs against a better pace attack? Can Southee maintain this rich vein of form? Etc etc

 

[ashley bach]

Interesting points you make Fuller, and I hope you're right about the black caps having the motivation to concentrate on winning the series
as opposed to worrying too much about the WTC.
Far too much emphasis is placed on scoring points to make the final, and to be honest I personally wouldn't care less if they just abolished
the whole thing, certainly until they can come up with a format that makes some sense and not completely random.
How about we just can it and call NZ the all time world test champions?
On a more serious note it appears to me NZ have some major concerns ahead of this series, with Kane and Devon hardly scoring a run between
them of late, this is a really bad sign.
While England have been horrible recently, they will be desperate to change their form, and playing them at home is always so much tougher.
It should be a very interesting series, one that is certainly hard to predict.
Fortunately being in Europe for 6 months, I'll be able to follow it ball by ball, while you poor suckers in NZ will have to wake up and hold
your breath before tuning into the scorecard to see what damage has occurred.
While it's a team game and everyone needs to chip in, can't help but get the feeling the black caps will need some fine individual performances
to compete strongly in this series.

 

[nzfan]

Conway is not a worry, he'll come out guns blazing when he's not had much runs in a game or two and generally he'll end up scoring big.

Kane will work overtime to get back in form, I'd rather he just plays his natural game and looks to score rather than survive.

We'll be all right with the bat, there's enough quality in the side as long as they don't make **** selection decisions.

Bowling definitely a concern though but England is struggling with the bat so we should be all right, it'll even things out.

 

[SteveNZ]

There's a bit of doom and gloom about this thread, it seems?! I get it, our summer was ****house...but gee whiz we're only a year off being world champions. Now we're talking about 'shades of poor era X' like we're about to head into a tailspin. I think we hit a flat patch of motivation last year through COVID and the comedown from the WTC victory, but I'm confident they'll be fizzing for this series - if not a bit match shy.

I don't think we're that far off our side from the WTC. OK, Jamieson has lost form, Wagner might be in his final year but we have an international standard spinner (if we can find the right balance to play him), CdG is bowling overs we thought we might've lost from him (potentially allowing 3 seamers + a spinner), Will Young is progressing well (if not still a Test opener), Conway is still a jet, Kane is Kane, and as much as BJ was a gun at his peak, he wasn't that guy for the last 12-18 months of his career. This is still a good Test side.

 

[Immenso]

There's a bit of doom and gloom about this thread, it seems?! I get it, our summer was ****house...but gee whiz we're only a year off being world champions. Now we're talking about 'shades of poor era X' like we're about to head into a tailspin. I think we hit a flat patch of motivation last year through COVID and the comedown from the WTC victory, but I'm confident they'll be fizzing for this series - if not a bit match shy.

I don't think we're that far off our side from the WTC. OK, Jamieson has lost form, Wagner might be in his final year but we have an international standard spinner (if we can find the right balance to play him), CdG is bowling overs we thought we might've lost from him (potentially allowing 3 seamers + a spinner), Will Young is progressing well (if not still a Test opener), Conway is still a jet, Kane is Kane, and as much as BJ was a gun at his peak, he wasn't that guy for the last 12-18 months of his career. This is still a good Test side.

I think we are a bit ****house, tbh.

Losing to Bangladesh at home, I can accept as a complacent slip-up, getting thrashed by South Africa in the second test after they'd recovered from their own totally inappropriate build-up - shows that this is a team that just aren't 'with it'. To do that after already getting a Bangladesh 'wake up call' shows there isn't much left in the well for these guys.

I was expecting an age & retirement related decline eventually from our unaccustomed altitudes. But this has happened almost immediately with our stars still only in early 30s.

I know that probably 50% of this malaise could be fixed by a fit and in-form Kane, but ....

There isn't much hunger. Stead can't even be bothered turning up for the build up, and has delegated it to job-training. I have no respect for Ebrahim's decison making abilities after his wicket keeping debacle for Otago. What a tone deaf challenge-shirker he must be.

The build-up .... I don't give much of a **** about IPL players missing it. The chance for the other 6 or 7 test starters to get 2 first class warm-ups is priceless. England is the only tour opportunity where this happens.. To turn BOTH into low intensity open-nets. Fills me with contempt. Reminds me of the build-up to the Australian tour debacle, just a bit. (No lead up game back then, understandable commercial decision based on a day-night test in Hamilton v England. But they didn't make use of the big gap before the second test and then cancelled their mickey mouse 2-day game because it was too hot ...).

So, in summary. We may do alright this series, because England are historically poor. But I put the result as 2-1, but I don't know which way the scoreline will go.

But NZ have an attitude, and attention-to-detail problem, a much faster than expected decline - that I can't see much desire to address. Stead should go. Not because I think he is crap , but he is clearly spent, and a new focus and drive is needed.

 

[Immenso]

^^ Despite my gloom.

It is interesting to muse on how much of a difference Kane in god-mod makes.

Him averaging 50 in his career, makes him worth about 1 and a half normal NZ test-class batsmen (a 35 averaging player).
But actually. He's averaging 63 for the last 7 or 8 years. So actually, he is like having a whole extra player.
Having this player in the top 3, again historically for NZ our weakest area, is worth a bit more, and makes our 4, 5 6 specialist batsmen, (plus the opener still in when he comes to the wicket) that x% better. To have solidity, runs and strike rotation at the other end.

Then think about how much our happy-hooking tail were exposed this season at home, against fresh bowlers.
Then think about our bowlers having runs on the board to play with.

Maybe his absence is worth playing with 10 player rather than with 13?

Will he return in god-mode and fix this? Probably not. His return will make a big difference regardless if he comes back with his dodgy elbow and averages 40ish to 50 for a few years until it is fixed. But I'd have to doubt he is going to be the 63 averaging god (Same with Kohli and Smith tbh) immediately.

 

[nzfan]

I'm confident we will go all right although we may not be as dominant. We have to make room for Ajaz, if they don't pick him I will not stay all night watching that's for sure. For no apparent reason he was sidelined. I do think Wagner is pretty much done. He was bowling at 72-74 miles in the warm up game and wasn't swinging the ball either. I'd like to be proved wrong like he has always done but he's definitely not the bowler he was a year or two ago. Limited opportunities to bowl in a competitive games frequently may have been the cause but we'll have to see how he goes. Funnily enough the county select batsmen still wore it on the lid at that pace.

Jamieson wasn't bowling any quicker either (generally around 75 mph) and his lines/length were a bit up and down but I guess he will find his lengths as the series progresses.

Southee will be all right, he needs to bowl lots of overs to get wickets but generally he's very stable and consistent. If there is swing on offer, he will knock over guys in quick time.

Henry will be all right too I guess, got a gun outswinger and given how England batters struggle just outside the off he will likely be our pick of the bowlers along side Southee.

The county select team swept and reverse swept Ajaz consistently. They had no fear but that can't be the case with the English players. They haven't had a lot of runs behind them so won't be as daring as the county select batters.

Boult can make a massive difference, his ability to swing both ways at high pace will cause England some trouble. Most England batters bat from off stump guard and left arm pacer getting the ball to swing in will knock over few.

Not expecting a single wicket from CDG, Mitchell... unless England are after quick runs and they throw their bat around.

Bracewell, nope just not convinced. Hard hands with the bat and just not enough behind the ball to make it happen. If they do play him it'll be a surprise surprise like they used to do in the 90s, take a bolter and play him in a game or two then write him off permanently. Hope they don't play him and ease him through white ball cricket which is his best format. Coming in at late middle order and having a go.

My biggest concern with the bat is Nicholls (yes he has proved us all wrong time and again), Blundell and to a certain extent Latham. Latham nicked off consistently which is not a great sign. He is a premier opener but the way he got out pushing at balls vs county select didn't make for good watch.

Kane looked all right, Devon will likely score most runs than anyone from both sides put together and Young will consistently get us good starts or at least score few 60s and 70s.

Ajaz vs Joe Root will be quite a contest. Can't wait...

 

[thundaboult]

I'm confident we will go all right although we may not be as dominant. We have to make room for Ajaz, if they don't pick him I will not stay all night watching that's for sure. For no apparent reason he was sidelined. I do think Wagner is pretty much done. He was bowling at 72-74 miles in the warm up game and wasn't swinging the ball either. I'd like to be proved wrong like he has always done but he's definitely not the bowler he was a year or two ago. Limited opportunities to bowl in a competitive games frequently may have been the cause but we'll have to see how he goes. Funnily enough the county select batsmen still wore it on the lid at that pace.

Jamieson wasn't bowling any quicker either (generally around 75 mph) and his lines/length were a bit up and down but I guess he will find his lengths as the series progresses.

Southee will be all right, he needs to bowl lots of overs to get wickets but generally he's very stable and consistent. If there is swing on offer, he will knock over guys in quick time.

Henry will be all right too I guess, got a gun outswinger and given how England batters struggle just outside the off he will likely be our pick of the bowlers along side Southee.

The county select team swept and reverse swept Ajaz consistently. They had no fear but that can't be the case with the English players. They haven't had a lot of runs behind them so won't be as daring as the county select batters.

Boult can make a massive difference, his ability to swing both ways at high pace will cause England some trouble. Most England batters bat from off stump guard and left arm pacer getting the ball to swing in will knock over few.

Not expecting a single wicket from CDG, Mitchell... unless England are after quick runs and they throw their bat around.

Bracewell, nope just not convinced. Hard hands with the bat and just not enough behind the ball to make it happen. If they do play him it'll be a surprise surprise like they used to do in the 90s, take a bolter and play him in a game or two then write him off permanently. Hope they don't play him and ease him through white ball cricket which is his best format. Coming in at late middle order and having a go.

My biggest concern with the bat is Nicholls (yes he has proved us all wrong time and again), Blundell and to a certain extent Latham. Latham nicked off consistently which is not a great sign. He is a premier opener but the way he got out pushing at balls vs county select didn't make for good watch.

Kane looked all right, Devon will likely score most runs than anyone from both sides put together and Young will consistently get us good starts or at least score few 60s and 70s.

Ajaz vs Joe Root will be quite a contest. Can't wait...

WAGS and JAMO bowling slower on purpose? the game wasn't even classified as FC

 

[Flem274*]

I take a more toned down immenso view. We have the talent to remain a very, very good team but something is missing. It's not just the KW elbow injury either - Conway filled in seamlessly - they just seem to not be all there right now.

Individually I look at the players and say yeah, he's really good, but they're conspiring to mess up series they should win. Talent and skill isn't an issue (for once) so that's an environment problem imo.

And I see Michael "I average 33 in FC cricket and 19 last season" Bracewell has made the 15 best test cricketers in the country. What a joke. The poor bloke has been put in an impossible position because to vindicate this he needs a debut century or the selectors are shown for the....incompetent? Nepotist?...guys they are.

I don't care if you want to justify it as "he's just there for the T20s" (he's not, they clearly believe what they're doing), this is what plane tickets are for. If I can afford a plane ticket then NZC can, or maybe not after they're paying the cricket board of the country who threw a sook we care about our players lives and limbs sorry money.

I actually think the pessimism is partly every fan knows NZC are run by goons.

 

[nzfan]

WAGS and JAMO bowling slower on purpose? the game wasn't even classified as FC

Yeah started like that but once the county select batters got struck in it seemed like they were giving it 100%

 

[Immenso]

Also. I'm surprised at the lack of bowling for Wagner in the warm-ups.

I thought he needed a good bowling load behind him, And that was the possible straw to cling to for his home summer, that it wasn't age, but lack of bowling.

But he's bowled only 1 innings? What's up with that?

I mean, if you go to his cricinfo 'recent matches' link - where they display the last 10 games for a player. It goes all the way back to June 2021 Birmingham.

He's played only 10 matches in 12 months, 2 of them classed as 'Other'.

I'd suggest that logic dictates this mean he is now out of the test 11 and they are giving those overs to other players. But, probably, it means a) they don't know what they're doing and he's playing all 3 tests, and b) that Wags has lost his desire.

 

[SteveNZ]

I think we are a bit ****house, tbh.

Losing to Bangladesh at home, I can accept as a complacent slip-up, getting thrashed by South Africa in the second test after they'd recovered from their own totally inappropriate build-up - shows that this is a team that just aren't 'with it'. To do that after already getting a Bangladesh 'wake up call' shows there isn't much left in the well for these guys.

I was expecting an age & retirement related decline eventually from our unaccustomed altitudes. But this has happened almost immediately with our stars still only in early 30s.

I know that probably 50% of this malaise could be fixed by a fit and in-form Kane, but ....

There isn't much hunger. Stead can't even be bothered turning up for the build up, and has delegated it to job-training. I have no respect for Ebrahim's decison making abilities after his wicket keeping debacle for Otago. What a tone deaf challenge-shirker he must be.

The build-up .... I don't give much of a **** about IPL players missing it. The chance for the other 6 or 7 test starters to get 2 first class warm-ups is priceless. England is the only tour opportunity where this happens.. To turn BOTH into low intensity open-nets. Fills me with contempt. Reminds me of the build-up to the Australian tour debacle, just a bit. (No lead up game back then, understandable commercial decision based on a day-night test in Hamilton v England. But they didn't make use of the big gap before the second test and then cancelled their mickey mouse 2-day game because it was too hot ...).

So, in summary. We may do alright this series, because England are historically poor. But I put the result as 2-1, but I don't know which way the scoreline will go.

But NZ have an attitude, and attention-to-detail problem, a much faster than expected decline - that I can't see much desire to address. Stead should go. Not because I think he is crap , but he is clearly spent, and a new focus and drive is needed.

Sorry, Gary Stead wasn't part of what build-up? I didn't hear anything about that. To me, he is still out of his depth and inherited a team firing on all cylinders, that is now spluttering. I can understand the drop in intensity over our summer, post WTC and clearly Kane drives standards that weren't upheld v SA. That's not an excuse though, it's piss poor. Especially the 2nd SA Test as you say, that was horrendous.

100% agreed on the warm-ups and low intensity.

I dunno, I will wait and see until the weekend. If we get on the front foot early at Lord's, I think the troubles will be forgotten. If we don't, that lack of match practice might severely bite us.

 

[Immenso]

Sorry, Gary Stead wasn't part of what build-up? I didn't hear anything about that.

The coaches aren't doing the full tour, to avoid burnout.

You've made me look it up to make sure I got it correct. Stead is missing some of the ODIs, Ireland part, before rejoining tour for Scotland and Netherlands. From what I can google.

So, my apologies. It seems he isn't joining the tour late and missing the warm-ups. I'll scrub that part out .....

There isn't much hunger. Stead can't even be bothered turning up for the build up, and has delegated it to job-training. I have no respect for Ebrahim's decison making abilities after his wicket keeping debacle for Otago. What a tone deaf challenge-shirker he must be.

 

[SteveNZ]

The coaches aren't doing the full tour, to avoid burnout.

You've made me look it up to make sure I got it correct. Stead is missing some of the ODIs, Ireland part, before rejoining tour for Scotland and Netherlands. From what I can google.

So, my apologies. It seems he isn't joining the tour late and missing the warm-ups. I'll scrub that part out .....

OK, I don't have a massive issue with that. I still don't think he's much chop, but not particularly worried about those ODIs. It is a very long tour.

 

[Bahnz]

Boult not being there really sucks. I don’t mind him taking series off for the sake of his mental health, but missing a Lord’s test so that he can play an IPL final is pretty gross.

 

[Immenso]

OK, I don't have a massive issue with that. I still don't think he's much chop, but not particularly worried about those ODIs. It is a very long tour.

Yeah, same here.

I actually think it is a good idea. For a low stakes white-ball tour. Like Pocknall on Bangladesh T20s last year. Increases exposure.
I had mixed this in my head with the late arriving IPL players - and come out with an omelette.

 

[nzfan]

Stead being there or not won't make a difference. From what I understand playing XI is mainly for captain to choose. Remember last year's UK tour, Stead saying Boult won't be ready and Boulty went out and stated he will be playing. Shows how much a coach wields power in a set up of very settled stalwarts. If Tom Latham captains that's a different thing, he will obviously side with Stead.

Fingers crossed on Kane's elbow. He hasn't had a longish inning for a while and hope the issue is gone away otherwise we will likely have Mitchell, Nicholls, Bracewell, Blundell and CDG making up the middle order. Kane out and it looks a very shaky batting order. Kane in worse form is better than some of these players in best form. Time for Devon to blast two triple hundreds in the series and make up for it.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Boult not being there really sucks. I don’t mind him taking series off for the sake of his mental health, but missing a Lord’s test so that he can play an IPL final is pretty gross.

If Henry produces another top-class performance at Lord's, Boult may not get back in the side.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Ravindra needs to do some excellent work in the winter training (or an overseas gig if he can get one) with bat and ball or else Bracewell could well get his 3rd (or 2nd) spinner's spot in the tests in Pakistan (despite Macewell's terrible Plunket Shield).