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Stumped!

ataraxia

International Coach
I just use BQ (bowling quality, the numbers in the commentary) as a metric really. (Accuracy / Line and Length is probably the most important skill to have, but it isn't always great. Frans Potgieter had a 16/12/8 distribution, and would very frequently end up bowling a pile of crap (2 to 4 BQ) on unhelpful pitches for his RFS.)
 

cnerd123

likes this
I feel looking into individual outcomes of single deliveries, or the bowling figures within a single game, or even a set of games, is missing the forest for the trees. These things all balance out over large sample sizes. The variance is huge, and your players aren't ever going to repeat the same performance week in week out. This is especially noticeable in International cricket, where each player can only really manage 20-30 games over a career at best. Very possible for them to end up with crap career numbers even tho they've mostly bowled well, a combination of poor luck/being forced into difficult roles.

Just to be clear 'quality' here is the number they show in the commentary that you can read off at the end of the game. But it appears that is more to do with the line and length of the bowler than the other skill metrics. Whereas the overall combined 'high skill' of the bowler and thus overall attack is more important when taking wickets.
I don't think L&L is that big a factor in determining BQ. Frans Potgieter is a good example - very accurate, but very little quality behind the ball, so he just kept bowling crap but in a good area. Some lower accuracy bowlers are incredibly potent because their 'best ball' is very very good. I think all 3 skills are equally important, same goes for batting, and so you want players to be solid in 2 out of 3 areas. Then comes the trick of balancing them all out, and using them at the right times.

So many more factors affect BQ as well - conditions, touch, the stage of the innings they're bowling in. Sometimes the RNG just doesn't go your way either, and everything can be optimized and they still bowl crap.

The flip side of course is that somedays everything goes your way, and your 2-over-a-game part-timer can end up taking 3 wickets in 5 balls to help you beat India :ph34r:
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Yay! TNT just won their first game... little surprised when TNT only scored 101, but bots are gonna bot.. still nice to get a win.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
I feel looking into individual outcomes of single deliveries, or the bowling figures within a single game, or even a set of games, is missing the forest for the trees. These things all balance out over large sample sizes. The variance is huge, and your players aren't ever going to repeat the same performance week in week out. This is especially noticeable in International cricket, where each player can only really manage 20-30 games over a career at best. Very possible for them to end up with crap career numbers even tho they've mostly bowled well, a combination of poor luck/being forced into difficult roles.
This does not inspire confidence :)

I don't think L&L is that big a factor in determining BQ. Frans Potgieter is a good example - very accurate, but very little quality behind the ball, so he just kept bowling crap but in a good area. Some lower accuracy bowlers are incredibly potent because their 'best ball' is very very good. I think all 3 skills are equally important, same goes for batting, and so you want players to be solid in 2 out of 3 areas. Then comes the trick of balancing them all out, and using them at the right times.

So many more factors affect BQ as well - conditions, touch, the stage of the innings they're bowling in. Sometimes the RNG just doesn't go your way either, and everything can be optimized and they still bowl crap.
So I was always looking at BQ as the way to judge my bowlers overall, and not worry about their contributions on a game to game basis for this reason. But I started to consider I may be wrong to use this metric, because Burger tends to bowl very high quality spells consistently across all pitches against all opposition. Being in the div 2 SOD this year did not expect his BQ to stay so high, but frequently find that his BQ >7.5 at innings end. Normally better than opposition bowlers. He bowls early in innings and end of innings. Now if high BQ (which takes into account all these factors, apparently) still results in him getting hit frequently and not taking anywhere near as many wickets as the BQ implies, I assumed that I was misjudging the BQ. As an example I use Kock as the other opening bowler, because he has decent movement, if less accuracy, also has F&G. He will bowl anything from 2 to 4 overs along with Burger in the beginning. Now he is a much poorer bowler, but he easily maintains a similar economy even with the F&G trait during that period. Only on occasion does he take wickets (obviously) but frequently he ends with similar or better numbers after his 4 overs compared to Burger, even through his BQ is 2 or 3 lower. And this I can't understand if BQ is a good metric.

And none of this is a complaint, this is me trying to get a better understanding of how the system works. Overall I find the TMOs tend to punch above their weight and I`m pretty happy with their performances.
 

cnerd123

likes this
Alonso Kock's stats in the 50 over this season are terrible. I think him the times you pair him up with Burger actually makes Burger less effective - the pressure Zack builds up gets released at the other end.

Experience plays a role too - Zach only has 11, so he's not going to be performing to the same standard as a poorer but more experienced bowler. Only 9 stamina too, so can only really bowl 3 overs in a spell, and at the death he'll be pretty tired.

Passmore is taking loads of wickets, probably benefitting in a way from the pressure the others are building.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Alonso Kock's stats in the 50 over this season are terrible. I think him the times you pair him up with Burger actually makes Burger less effective - the pressure Zack builds up gets released at the other end.

Experience plays a role too - Zach only has 11, so he's not going to be performing to the same standard as a poorer but more experienced bowler. Only 9 stamina too, so can only really bowl 3 overs in a spell, and at the death he'll be pretty tired.

Passmore is taking loads of wickets, probably benefitting in a way from the pressure the others are building.
So Passmore has taken loads of wickets, later in innings. But he does not actually have much support either because I have been playing my development team in the main. (Barring condition issues).

Burger Stamina is a big issue. I normally find I can get the best out of him, with 3 overs (2 overs in between) and then 3 overs. Then he bowls 2 in the middle and 2 at the end. Provided the heat is not extreme he tends to get tired only on the 6th over and some times in the last over.

The plan is to try develop Hunt quickly to partner Burger with the new ball... high stamina to take consecutive overs early. Then I will hopefully be able to spread Burgers over throughout the match a bit more.

On the experience side, I do sometimes under estimate the importance of this. Think its why Ncanana still does a decent job for me even though he gives away so many runs.
 

Jarquis

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Stamina is such a pain in the arse some times. Try to bowl Kudesia’s 10 somewhere between 14-42 and he no doubt gets tired somewhere.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
Stamina is such a pain in the arse some times. Try to bowl Kudesia’s 10 somewhere between 14-42 and he no doubt gets tired somewhere.
Yes... but how many times have you seen 'shows the first signs of tiredness' in the middle of an over and 2 balls later gets a wicket...
 

SillyCowCorner1

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Moo CC finish Dev 2.2 in 5th place, after a promising start to the season, tied with FHK on 36 points…FHK ahead of us by 0.09 on the NRR

GG CC finish Dev 2.1 in 4th place
 

SillyCowCorner1

Request Your Custom Title Now!
Do I stay away from friendlies from FHK while he is ranked 58th in the world? Hell ****ing no!

I wanna get trashed in the most subtle way...
 

JOJOXI

International Vice-Captain
Great development game between TMOs and Winton. Congrats to @JOJOXI.
Thanks for game @StephenZA - a good recovery from your side to go from 79/5 after 18 to 215/9 after 40.

Your team done well in first half of innings to test our nerves - thought it might end up being one of those innings where a run out here and there, another dismissal there and suddenly disappears the platform and prospect of win.
 

ataraxia

International Coach
For a moment there it looked like Arthur forgot that he was playing in an IGT-optimised side for a dead rubber. Instead, it thought it was the IPL -- where impossible chases are made possible. Alas, he remembered in time.
 

StephenZA

Hall of Fame Member
TNT won their T20 today against the bot, so all good... lost a dev friendly to the Pirates @Marcuss yesterday. But at least gave you a bit of a run.

Think that TNT is going to be very reliant on Nizami and Trent for the next 6 months at least! That's ok it gives me a chance to get my coaching staff sorted...
 

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