Would Viv have averaged 50 if he had to face WI attack also ?

[Pap Finn Keighl]

Viv playing in any other team until 1991 = mid 40s avg.

And in 2021 people like me would be arguing for a CW underrated Viv by giving reasons like peer ratings, longer career, strike rate.. Etc

 

[ataraxia]

Ok. But assuming he were from say Pakistan/India he'd also face the likes of 80s SL more frequently. If he were Australian, he face England more often. Etc. Again, he'd not likely average 50+ vs them but there's a real possibility he'd make up the slack elsewhere. That's precisely what Javed for example did. Sucked vs WI but was very good/great vs everyone else.

I don't see how, even if he played for one of those three countries, playing a weaker team slightly more would account for having to face the best bowling attack of all time much more.

 

[Slifer]

But would Viv's playing style and attitude (carefree) allow him to cash against weaker opponents?
There is a reason both Sehwag and Gilchrist average less than 50.

Would Viv had been as carefree having to face the four horse men?? Who knows? But the fact is he's more likely to cash in than fail vs the likes of SL for goodness sake. You lot are arguing that he'd come off second best vs a great attack, well then logically he would just as likely do better vs weaker attacks (playing England more, SL )

 

[sunilz]

Would Viv had been as carefree having to face the four horse men?? Who knows? But the fact is he's more likely to cash in than fail vs the likes of SL for goodness sake. You lot are arguing that he'd come off second best vs a great attack, well then logically he would just as likely do better vs weaker attacks (playing England more, SL )

But he already faced England in 30% of his matches. How much more he would have played against them ? SL part is valid but that would also have been compensated by playing more against WI.

 

[Slifer]

I don't see how, even if he played for one of those three countries, playing a weaker team slightly more would account for having to face the best bowling attack of all time much more.

Using Javed as an example, he averaged 30 vs WI over 16 tests. Assuming Viv did just as badly (that's a stretch) it's not out of the realm of possibilities he'd do well vs the other teams especially the likes of SL (12 tests) . He'd certainly have home umpires more in his favor....

 

[Slifer]

But he already faced England in 30% of his matches. How much more he would have played against them ? SL part is valid but that would also have been compensated by playing more against WI.

Ok so which team are we assuming he's playing for then: Australia, Pakistan, England?

 

[ataraxia]

Assume Australia .

I might add

 

[sunilz]

Using Javed as an example, he averaged 30 vs WI over 16 tests. Assuming Viv did just as badly (that's a stretch) it's not out of the realm of possibilities he'd do well vs the other teams especially the likes of SL (12 tests) . He'd certainly have home umpires more in his favor....

I am getting your pov. But once again my point is that Viv would have to change his care free attitude to cash more against weaker opponents.

 

[Slifer]

But he already faced England in 30% of his matches. How much more he would have played against them ? SL part is valid but that would also have been compensated by playing more against WI.

Had he been Australian, much more...

 

[ataraxia]

Viv would have to change his batting style to cash more against weaker opponents

wtf

 

[ataraxia]

Had he been Australian, much more...

Border played 30.1% of his matches against England.

Viv played 29.8% of his matches against England.

Much more.

 

[Slifer]

I am getting your pov. But once again my point is that Viv would have to change his batting style to cash more against weaker opponents.

And he was capable of that. I hate to use Odis as a Guage but i recall him scoring 180 odd in a wc odi vs SL. It's not a stretch to assume he could do it in tests. I keep using SL because he's the only great from the 80s who averaged 50+ but who didn't face their attack which was the weakest.

 

[sunilz]

wtf

I saw how Sehwag wasn't bothered much to score against BAN/ZIM ( more like care free attitude). More like attitude than batting style. Should have used better words

 

[Slifer]

Border played 30.1% of his matches against England.

Viv played 29.8% of his matches against England.

Much more.

So let me get this straight then, you lot are saying that it's unlikely that Viv could average 50 + overall, even if he played vs the WI. Then how did Border, Javed and Sunil manage to do so? And especially Javed given that he averaged 30 vs the WI.

 

[sunilz]

So let me get this straight then, you lot are saying that it's unlikely that Viv could average 50 + overall, even if he played vs the WI. Then how did Border, Javed and Sunil manage to do so? And especially Javed given that he averaged 30 vs the WI.

Viv would have definitely averaged 50 if he had to face SL also

My question assumed that other parameters remained constant and he had to face WI only.

 

[Slifer]

If he faced WI only, Viv would have met his match, no doubt about that. As Boycott said, in the nets not even Viv could hit Garner. And Marshall around the wicket to Viv...no comment...

 

[bagapath]

Don't think this logic works at all

its not a bad one, imo

So let me get this straight then, you lot are saying that it's unlikely that Viv could average 50 + overall, even if he played vs the WI. Then how did Border, Javed and Sunil manage to do so? And especially Javed given that he averaged 30 vs the WI.

yup. thats what I am asking too.

 

[sunilz]

its not a bad one, imo



yup. thats what I am asking too.

Both you and Silfer assumed he would face SL too. In my original question, I assumed other parameters remained constant and he had to face WI only as extra team.
So both of you assume Viv was a SL batsman to avoid confusion.

 

[Coronis]

If he faced WI only, Viv would have met his match, no doubt about that. As Boycott said, in the nets not even Viv could hit Garner. And Marshall around the wicket to Viv...no comment...

Well just put in Garner, easy peasy.

 

[OverratedSanity]

I think it's possible he might have but hardly something one can say with much confidence either way tbh. There's more randomness in vs country test stats for many players.

I agree though that batsmen who play in teams with great attacks do have a marginally easier time of it. It's something they get a generous benefit of doubt on CW particularly in direct comparison with players who had to face those same great attacks.