***Official*** England in India 2016/17

[harsh.ag]

 

[S.Kennedy]

Broad is (marginally) ahead of Anderson now. Neither of them had a great year by their standards.

 

[Black_Warrior]

I saw a lot of posts and reports (esp in cricinfo) stating that England's 'focus' and 'resurgence' in ODIs and T20s have cost them in test cricket.

The latest ICC rankings indicate that England are 5th in tests, ODIs and 6th in T20 cricket. So what's this resurgence we are talking about?

Where are you reading these posts and reports because they absolutely nonsensical.

They are vastly different sides with different core group.

There is only one reason why England lost. They were not the better team.

 

[cnerd123]

Where are you reading these posts and reports because they absolutely nonsensical.

They are vastly different sides with different core group.

There is only one reason why England lost. They were not the better team.

I've heard George Dobell say that England Cricket is currently structured towards winning Limited Overs Tournaments and winning the Ashes.

IDK how true it is, but that's what he's saying

 

[Black_Warrior]

and he's talking crap

 

[OverratedSanity]

Doesn't make sense to me. Their squads for the formats are all different.

 

[Black_Warrior]

Look this is the same test side which this summer was considered very good, which at the beginning of the year was tipped as one of the best sides, having won in South Africa, and in October last year, Botham tipped this side to win in the subcontinent and South Africa.

So now 1 year later, ODI cricket is ruining the test team?

 

[S.Kennedy]

I do not believe that England's one-day revolution is hindering the Test team per se, as you'd have to assume England were spellbinding before Bayliss took over which is certainly not the case. You could certainly argue that the new mindset has made their brand of Test cricket more attacking, more Kiwi, but then is this necessarily better? Just look at the lack of composure (at the crease) and shot selection in India! England did have a lot of success with stodgy accumulative cricket under Flowers/Moores, and then some failures - some bad failures such as whitewash in Oz.

Maybe we got a bit carried away with the Bayliss era following the Ashes and South African tour, and now we are seeing the fall out.

 

[harsh.ag]

Never thought I would be saying this, but Mayanti Langer is on TV way more than she should be.

 

[Furball]

Broad is (marginally) ahead of Anderson now. Neither of them had a great year by their standards.

Both took 40+ wickets at an avarage below their career average (23 for Anderson, 25 for Broad).

A poor tour of India where both were hampered by injury doesn't make it a poor year. Both have been ranked the number 1 Test bowler in the world this year.

 

[listento_me]

While you may have a point regarding Broad, Wagner has been nothing short of exceptional this year and his performances have somehow managed to miss the radar of some cricket fans.

Well...I'm not saying he's bad but again, I feel it's just looking at stats rather than the actual bowling. He is a good solid bowler (like most "pace" bowlers on the scene at the moment) but there is nothing tremendous about him I guess he could make a top 10 in the class of 2016 but noway should he be above Shah. Take away Wagners 11 wickets against Zimbabwe and you're left with a crappy deal in India and a couple of good spells against the saffers. How that is supposed to supplant a guy with 2 ten fors, one in his first test series in England, which also produced 2 5 fors and every time Shah bowled well, Pakistan got a win or a whiff of a win.Not to mention he bowled well against the Windies too.

So, Wagner in a top 10 isn't so much the issue, above Shah is. Same goes for Broad too.

 

[honestbharani]

Both took 40+ wickets at an avarage below their career average (23 for Anderson, 25 for Broad).

A poor tour of India where both were hampered by injury doesn't make it a poor year. Both have been ranked the number 1 Test bowler in the world this year.

Anderson was not injured in India. In any case, Broad looked streets ahead as a bowler in India and if the rest of the categories are that close between them, this should be the clincher in favor of Broad.

 

[Spark]

I've heard George Dobell say that England Cricket is currently structured towards winning Limited Overs Tournaments and winning the Ashes.

IDK how true it is, but that's what he's saying

George Dobell is making the argument, that should tell you how "true" it is.

Broad is (marginally) ahead of Anderson now. Neither of them had a great year by their standards.

Broad has been ahead of Anderson for quite a while now imo.

 

[Shri]

Ashwin on winning the award:

“I’d like to dedicate this award to my family. I’d like to thank ICC and most importantly my team-mates. I’d also like to thank the support staff for our success. We’ve had a great transition ever since Mahendra Singh Dhoni hung up his boots. A young captain has taken over, we fell on the right track, and we now have a new bunch of boys.”

Friendship with Dhoni is over. Now, Kohli is my best friend.

 

[wpdavid]

I do not believe that England's one-day revolution is hindering the Test team per se, as you'd have to assume England were spellbinding before Bayliss took over which is certainly not the case. You could certainly argue that the new mindset has made their brand of Test cricket more attacking, more Kiwi, but then is this necessarily better? Just look at the lack of composure (at the crease) and shot selection in India! England did have a lot of success with stodgy accumulative cricket under Flowers/Moores, and then some failures - some bad failures such as whitewash in Oz.

Maybe we got a bit carried away with the Bayliss era following the Ashes and South African tour, and now we are seeing the fall out.

I think we got away with it a bit against Aus and SA - their weaknesses turned out to be bigger than ours, which were rather glossed over by the results in those series.

2017 is going to be a make or break year for this squad. Unless they manage to address the weaknesses in the squad, we could lose heavily to SA and Aus this time around and we could be in a right old mess with some key players approaching the end of their careers. If, otoh, the semi-established players step up a gear and the newbies settle in, it could be a very good year indeed. But I wouldn't want to predict which way it will go.

 

[honestbharani]

I just think they need to balance the side out better. I saw what Rob Smyth (sp?) put out in The Guardian and it seems decent enough. England management have to ask themselves this question - is Moeen a batsman who can bowl, an all rounder, or a bowler who can bat? And unless the answer is the middle option, he is not really worth keeping in the side AFAIC. Now, in my humble opinion, England have 4 all rounders who can play in just about all conditions (Woakes' prowess needs to be proven overseas but at least he has earned the right to start) and you need to fit in your 4 batsmen and 3 bowlers around these guys. I would go this way:


Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root *

Then you bat your 4 all rounders according to their potential as well as form as batsmen. To me, that would go:

Stokes
Bairstow +
Ali
Woakes


A good blend of RH/LH through the order as a bonus. For the remaining 3 slots, unless it is an absolute greentop, I do not see why you would need 5 seamers, given that Jennings looks passable as a medium pacer himself. Therefore, I would go:

Rashid
Broad
Anderson


The other way to go about this would be to consider only Stokes and Bairstow as the all rounders and bat them 6 and 7 and then build the rest of the side around them, in which case:

Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root *
**** - batsman in form from county cricket
Stokes
Bairstow +
Ali/Rashid/Dawson/Leach
Woakes/Wood/Finn/Ball
Broad
Anderson


I do like the look of that side too but so much depends on who that #5 is and how well he can perform.

 

[Groundking]

I just think they need to balance the side out better. I saw what Rob Smyth (sp?) put out in The Guardian and it seems decent enough. England management have to ask themselves this question - is Moeen a batsman who can bowl, an all rounder, or a bowler who can bat? And unless the answer is the middle option, he is not really worth keeping in the side AFAIC. Now, in my humble opinion, England have 4 all rounders who can play in just about all conditions (Woakes' prowess needs to be proven overseas but at least he has earned the right to start) and you need to fit in your 4 batsmen and 3 bowlers around these guys. I would go this way:


Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root *

Then you bat your 4 all rounders according to their potential as well as form as batsmen. To me, that would go:

Stokes
Bairstow +
Ali
Woakes


A good blend of RH/LH through the order as a bonus. For the remaining 3 slots, unless it is an absolute greentop, I do not see why you would need 5 seamers, given that Jennings looks passable as a medium pacer himself. Therefore, I would go:

Rashid
Broad
Anderson


The other way to go about this would be to consider only Stokes and Bairstow as the all rounders and bat them 6 and 7 and then build the rest of the side around them, in which case:

Cook
Hameed
Jennings
Root *
**** - batsman in form from county cricket
Stokes
Bairstow +
Ali/Rashid/Dawson/Leach
Woakes/Wood/Finn/Ball
Broad
Anderson


I do like the look of that side too but so much depends on who that #5 is and how well he can perform.

Moeen has scored 1000+ runs at just shy of 47 with 4 tons, how is he not a batsman who bowls a bit? Absolute absurd, and team moving forwards needs to have Moeen in it.

 

[S.Kennedy]

I think we got away with it a bit against Aus and SA - their weaknesses turned out to be bigger than ours, which were rather glossed over by the results in those series.

2017 is going to be a make or break year for this squad. Unless they manage to address the weaknesses in the squad, we could lose heavily to SA and Aus this time around and we could be in a right old mess with some key players approaching the end of their careers. If, otoh, the semi-established players step up a gear and the newbies settle in, it could be a very good year indeed. But I wouldn't want to predict which way it will go.

The Aussies are absolutely hopeless at any lateral movement. They basically got skittled out in the Ashes in the traditional English manner.

 

[S.Kennedy]

I still do not like Butler coming in after Bairstow/Stokes. It looks lop-sided. It makes no sense whatsoever. I would probably play Jennings at 3 with a view to bumping him up to an opener when Cooky retires. Root is a better 4 anyway.

Cook *
Hameed
Jennings
Root
Butler
Bairstow +
Stokes
Woakes
Rashid
Broad
Anderson

The top order looks a tad stodgy but that is what England need I suppose, particularly with all that attacking coming from Root onward. Injury pending, Wood can replace Rashid on a seaming wicket, or alternatively replace Anderson or Broad if they're knackered. If you are going to play Ali, and he seriously needs some nets against the short stuff, then you insert him before Butler and drop the extra bowler (Ali needs to be viewed as a batter who bowls part-time.)

That is the best line-up England can possibly produce at this moment in time I feel, until we can conjure up a decent spinner and replace Rashid.

 

[GIMH]

Anderson was not injured in India. In any case, Broad looked streets ahead as a bowler in India and if the rest of the categories are that close between them, this should be the clincher in favor of Broad.

He was, at the beginning of the tour.